Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Contains threads on British Army equipment of the past, present and future.
SD67
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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by SD67 »

IMHO if LIS means anything that platform, or an evolution of it should basically own the light and medium strands of the LMP. They wouldn't need to be delivered in one batch - could be fed in at 100-200 a year as legacy platforms are phased out. The benefits of commonality and a short supply chain for ongoing support must surely count for something.

I'd discount the LRV vehicle however as it's based on the old Disco 4 chassis. If the Babcock / Toyota vehicle also wins the Utility category then we've basically got a Babcock/Supacat one stop shop for everything under 20t . With BAE/Rheinmetall doing everything heavy. Not that dissimilar to shipbuilding. (understand I'm simplifying)
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jedibeeftrix
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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by jedibeeftrix »

new guy wrote: 02 Feb 2024, 21:18 Supacat will unveil a closed cab version of its Jackal 3 High Mobility Transport (HMT) vehicle at Defence Vehicle Dynamics in mid-September 2024 and will also unveil a concept for an 8x8 vehicle using HMT technology.
these two changes i can't wait to see!
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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by Little J »

I'm curious about the 8x8, what configuration would it be? 2 axles front, 2 axles back... Or did they just bolt on an extra axle, on the back of the extra axle on the Coyote

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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by Caribbean »

An 8x8? Would that improve load sufficiently to make LIMAWS (Gun & Rocket) a practical reality (I understand that the weight was pretty much on the chassis limit for the original proposal)?
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sol
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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by sol »

Little J wrote: 05 Feb 2024, 11:31 I'm curious about the 8x8, what configuration would it be? 2 axles front, 2 axles back... Or did they just bolt on an extra axle, on the back of the extra axle on the Coyote
My guess would be latter
Caribbean wrote: 05 Feb 2024, 11:45 An 8x8? Would that improve load sufficiently to make LIMAWS (Gun & Rocket) a practical reality (I understand that the weight was pretty much on the chassis limit for the original proposal)?
Practical in what way? Considering that Coyote is already borderline if not to heavy to be transported by Chinook, even heavier vehicle with rocket launcher would definitely be to heavy, C-130 is gone and A400M should already be able to transport M270.
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RunningStrong
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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by RunningStrong »

Caribbean wrote: 05 Feb 2024, 11:45 An 8x8? Would that improve load sufficiently to make LIMAWS (Gun & Rocket) a practical reality (I understand that the weight was pretty much on the chassis limit for the original proposal)?
The HMT 800 for M777 Portee was 8x6, with 3 rear axels.
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Jackstar
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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by Jackstar »

Jackal 3 boasts increased capabilities and greater soldier protection
By summer 2024 the first batch of 70 new High Mobility Transporter (HMT) Jackal 3 vehicles will be produced for the British Army by Babcock International Group and Supacat.
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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

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BB85
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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by BB85 »

I can understand the benefits of an open top design in Afghanistan especially when enemy drones were less of an issue, but do these vehicles actually have a viable use case in Europe? Feels like a contract placed in order to keep a British manufacturer afloat for a few more years.

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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by Jackstar »

BB85 wrote: 28 Feb 2024, 09:29 I can understand the benefits of an open top design in Afghanistan especially when enemy drones were less of an issue, but do these vehicles actually have a viable use case in Europe? Feels like a contract placed in order to keep a British manufacturer afloat for a few more years.
The Jackal is open-topped for maximum visibility and easy access. Useful in a reconnaissance platform.
There are always trade offs with any armoured vehicles.
They are well armed and offer good protection to their crews.
Jackal has been exported to Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, Norway, and Estonia.
The last time I looked some of those countries are in Europe.

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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by RunningStrong »

BB85 wrote: 28 Feb 2024, 09:29 I can understand the benefits of an open top design in Afghanistan especially when enemy drones were less of an issue, but do these vehicles actually have a viable use case in Europe? Feels like a contract placed in order to keep a British manufacturer afloat for a few more years.
What difference is a soft top going to have against a grenade-armed drone? Anything short an armoured roof is useless. So then you have a vehicle that heavier, higher CoG, less crew situational awareness, less capable of recce.

If we want to put all personnel into Eagle/Bushmaster/EnJLTV with RWS then that's an entirely different concept of use.
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new guy
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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by new guy »

BB85 wrote: 28 Feb 2024, 09:29 I can understand the benefits of an open top design in Afghanistan especially when enemy drones were less of an issue, but do these vehicles actually have a viable use case in Europe? Feels like a contract placed in order to keep a British manufacturer afloat for a few more years.
Supacat isn't the reason Jackal is open top, far from it. Supacat offers a cab version, the army just hasn't selected it.
There is also a requirement for 270 more jackals, so no, not to keep a British manufacturer afloat
If the aim was to keep British industry alive then supacat would have been dead a long time ago, as the MoD / Government / Industrial strategy is shit at doing that.
Jackal has been exported to Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, American special forces, Norway, and Estonia.
Quite a few of those countries are in Europe.

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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by BB85 »

RunningStrong wrote: 28 Feb 2024, 13:36
BB85 wrote: 28 Feb 2024, 09:29 I can understand the benefits of an open top design in Afghanistan especially when enemy drones were less of an issue, but do these vehicles actually have a viable use case in Europe? Feels like a contract placed in order to keep a British manufacturer afloat for a few more years.
What difference is a soft top going to have against a grenade-armed drone? Anything short an armoured roof is useless. So then you have a vehicle that heavier, higher CoG, less crew situational awareness, less capable of recce.

If we want to put all personnel into Eagle/Bushmaster/EnJLTV with RWS then that's an entirely different concept of use.
An angled roof would be enough to deflect grenades dropped from drones away from the crew and reduce injuries. The Jackel is basically an open bucket inviting them to be dropped inside.
I agree Jackel provides excellent situational awareness but the trade off in exposure to drones dropping grenades is enormous.
Estonia borrowed 4 jackets for peace keeping in Mali, did Norway and Denmark purchase their vehicles for use in Afghanistan as well?

If these vehicles ever are deployed to Ukraine I'm sure they will be retrofitted with some sort of roof structureit it will just look very cobbled together.

RunningStrong
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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by RunningStrong »

BB85 wrote: 28 Feb 2024, 23:06 An angled roof would be enough to deflect grenades dropped from drones away from the crew and reduce injuries. The Jackel is basically an open bucket inviting them to be dropped inside.
There's a tarp on top, does the same job for grenades.

On a jackal the whole crew are the eyes and ears of the platform, the bods in the back aren't just there for the ride.

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Tempest414
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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by Tempest414 »

It comes down to use grande dropping drones are good against troops on a front line or convories but Jackal is a RECCE vehicle used by small fast moving units using cover to spot the enemy without being seen

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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by tomuk »

Tempest414 wrote: 29 Feb 2024, 10:38 RECCE vehicle used by small fast moving units using cover to spot the enemy without being seen
Sounds like a drone to me.

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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by Tempest414 »

tomuk wrote: 29 Feb 2024, 14:21
Tempest414 wrote: 29 Feb 2024, 10:38 RECCE vehicle used by small fast moving units using cover to spot the enemy without being seen
Sounds like a drone to me.
A fast moving cavalry Platoon mounted on jackal sounds like a drone to you ?

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Re: Jackal and Coyote MWMIK (Army)

Post by tomuk »

Tempest414 wrote: 29 Feb 2024, 14:50
tomuk wrote: 29 Feb 2024, 14:21
Tempest414 wrote: 29 Feb 2024, 10:38 RECCE vehicle used by small fast moving units using cover to spot the enemy without being seen
Sounds like a drone to me.
A fast moving cavalry Platoon mounted on jackal sounds like a drone to you ?
Spotting the enemy without being seen.

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