Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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RunningStrong
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

Post by RunningStrong »

BB85 wrote: 23 Mar 2024, 08:38 I thought I saw a post talking about Fox hound mark 2, maybe MRV-P will pick up again.

Unfortunately Ajax has been built so bespoke to British army requirements it has been a total flop in the export market. Too heavy to be a scout and reconasaince vehicle but too small internally to be considered an IFV.
It's the same weight as other Armoured Recce vehicles with similar protection...

It's fundamentally capable of being an IFV (as is ASCOD 2) if that is the intended purpose of the design. However, even when there were 20 or so variants proposed (including many of the CVRT capabilities) there was not any IFV. There was a direct fire 105mm proposed, would was reason for the larger turret ring.
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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BB85 wrote: 23 Mar 2024, 08:38 Unfortunately Ajax has been built so bespoke to British army requirements it has been a total flop in the export market. Too heavy to be a scout and reconasaince vehicle but too small internally to be considered an IFV.
Considering that Australia and Germany are acquiring turreted Boxer as a Scout and Reconnaissance vehicle and that is >90% the GVW of Ajax, while being considerably taller, I'd say that your assessment there is a bit off.

Ajax is poorly laid out as an IFV, but there's scope for Ares to fit a turret of some kind* and still carry a useful number of infantry.


* probably remote and with limited or no roof penetration.

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

Post by RunningStrong »

mr.fred wrote: 23 Mar 2024, 12:25
BB85 wrote: 23 Mar 2024, 08:38 Unfortunately Ajax has been built so bespoke to British army requirements it has been a total flop in the export market. Too heavy to be a scout and reconasaince vehicle but too small internally to be considered an IFV.
Considering that Australia and Germany are acquiring turreted Boxer as a Scout and Reconnaissance vehicle and that is >90% the GVW of Ajax, while being considerably taller, I'd say that your assessment there is a bit off.

Ajax is poorly laid out as an IFV, but there's scope for Ares to fit a turret of some kind* and still carry a useful number of infantry.


* probably remote and with limited or no roof penetration.
Well said. When people argue that AJAX is too big, they've clearly not met BOXER.

At DSEI it made CR3 look tiny, and the MAN Elbit Artillery look reasonable...
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mr.fred
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

Post by mr.fred »

RunningStrong wrote: 23 Mar 2024, 17:35 Well said. When people argue that AJAX is too big, they've clearly not met BOXER.
Thank you.
To go further, this is the picture I wanted to use to highlight the issue, but couldn't find earlier:
Image
Note how the Boxer hull roof is about level with Ajax's turret roof.
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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Image

BOXER CRV versus Abrams.
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

Post by BB85 »

mr.fred wrote: 23 Mar 2024, 12:25
BB85 wrote: 23 Mar 2024, 08:38 Unfortunately Ajax has been built so bespoke to British army requirements it has been a total flop in the export market. Too heavy to be a scout and reconasaince vehicle but too small internally to be considered an IFV.
Considering that Australia and Germany are acquiring turreted Boxer as a Scout and Reconnaissance vehicle and that is >90% the GVW of Ajax, while being considerably taller, I'd say that your assessment there is a bit off.

Ajax is poorly laid out as an IFV, but there's scope for Ares to fit a turret of some kind* and still carry a useful number of infantry.


* probably remote and with limited or no roof penetration.
Fair point. I'm not a fan of Boxer as a scout vehicle either, I was thinking more along the lines of the French Jaguar EBRC. I guess cross country performance will be the deciding factor.
Lets just hope once it's in service it can put all of its development woes behind it.

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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BB85 wrote: 27 Mar 2024, 10:48 Fair point. I'm not a fan of Boxer as a scout vehicle either, I was thinking more along the lines of the French Jaguar EBRC. I guess cross country performance will be the deciding factor.
Lets just hope once it's in service it can put all of its development woes behind it.
Bwaahahaha. Have you see Jaguar with banana for scale?

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

Post by Jackstar »

"Defence Procurement Minister James Cartlidge has also confirmed 93 Ajax vehicles will be ready for service this year"

https://www.forces.net/technology/land- ... -each-year

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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Reaction to Ajax, combat ready HQ.
British Army in Sweden | Ajax: The New Generation of Armoured Fighting Vehicles | Soldier Reacts.

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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Ajax demonstrates capabilities in extreme cold weather
By Tom Dunlop - April 23, 202482
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Ajax, the British Army’s newest generation of armoured fighting vehicles, has successfully completed rigorous trials in the challenging sub-zero conditions of Sweden.
The trials, which saw temperatures plummet to as low as -36 Celsius, were conducted by the Defence Equipment & Support (DE&S) Ajax delivery team in collaboration with the Household Cavalry Regiment (HCR).

This marks the first time that a Field Army crew has operated and fired the Ajax, showcasing its cutting-edge Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition, and Reconnaissance (ISTAR) technology in extreme conditions.

The vehicle was tested for its ability to manoeuvre over snow-covered terrain and execute firing on the move with remarkable accuracy.

Warrant Officer Class Two (WO2) Paul Martin, the Range Conducting Officer, oversaw the range and firing serials, mirroring his duties in the UK. Reflecting on the trials, WO2 Martin remarked in a press release, “It was great to work alongside our Army colleagues and industry who all have one common purpose and that’s the end goal of delivering this exceptional platform to the Field Army. It was an extremely challenging environment, but working as a group we were able to successfully deliver our objective of demonstrating that Ajax can travel long distances over snow-covered terrain and fire on the move with great accuracy.”

Lieutenant Colonel James Glossop, the DE&S delivery team’s Operation and Army HQ liaison, also shared his observations: “It was very impressive to see Ajax perform in Sweden. I was lucky enough to see the platforms fire during a snowstorm and use its sighting systems to identify, engage and hit targets that were simply unable to be seen by the naked eye. It was incredibly impressive and a reminder of the competitive edge this armoured vehicle will bring the British Army.”
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/ajax-de ... d-weather/
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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Ajax and Ares | The Future of Armoured Vehicles | British Army
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Here at the British Army, we are always modernising.

By working closely with industry partners, we are ensuring that we remain an innovative, agile and lethal force.

You may be familiar with our armoured vehicle Ajax, but did you know that Ares is the name of the specialist troop carrying variant?

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

Post by SD67 »

Genuine question - why exactly can Ares only fit 4 people? Are there electronic gubbins in there that could be minaturised?

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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SD67 wrote: 19 May 2024, 15:31 Genuine question - why exactly can Ares only fit 4 people? Are there electronic gubbins in there that could be minaturised?
Miniaturised?

ARES is a driver and commander forward left. A PAX commander front right, and three PAX seated on left. Opposite them is mostly stores of ammunition and rations for said PAX. The system within ARES are largely the same across all the other non-turreted variants, but without the specialist equipment.

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

Post by Caribbean »

If Ares is intended to be for "specialist teams", would I be right in assuming that the "stores of ammunition" are bulky items, like ATGMs & MANPADS etc? So, if that is the case, would it be able to hold (say) a 6-man section if those racks were replaced by seats?

Though I must confess that I'm puzzled as to why Ascod can carry 8 dismounts in a shorter vehicle
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

Post by BB85 »

Ajax and Ares, has huge storage containers either side of the rear door on the hull that probably explains the increase in length. The hull itself is probably the same length if not shorter.

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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Caribbean wrote: 19 May 2024, 22:03 If Ares is intended to be for "specialist teams", would I be right in assuming that the "stores of ammunition" are bulky items, like ATGMs & MANPADS etc? So, if that is the case, would it be able to hold (say) a 6-man section if those racks were replaced by seats?

Though I must confess that I'm puzzled as to why Ascod can carry 8 dismounts in a shorter vehicle
ASCOD (8-PAX) has next to no interior stowage and there's no PAX Commander Station (which in ARES has a single display and RWS control).
At a glance, the ASCOD 8- PAX isn't fit for Fijians.

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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BB85 wrote: 20 May 2024, 10:35 Ajax and Ares, has huge storage containers either side of the rear door on the hull that probably explains the increase in length. The hull itself is probably the same length if not shorter.
ASCOD has them too. You can see it has the exhaust exit on AJAX, but not on ASCOD.

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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BB85 wrote: 20 May 2024, 10:35 Ajax and Ares, has huge storage containers either side of the rear door on the hull that probably explains the increase in length. The hull itself is probably the same length if not shorter.
I thought it was because they added an additional road wheel, stretching the hull. Pizzaro has 6, Ajax 7. Pizzaro is about 30cm wider though
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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I'm not sure, I remember trying to read up on all of the differences between the original Ascod, Ajax and Ascod 2 hulls. I've seen photos of the Pizarro with 6 and 7 road wheels on each side, the 6 wheel version may have been a prototype. The new US variant with updated suspension only has 6 road wheels, but the latest VAC version order by Spain has 7. Will be interesting to know if there is any UK content in the latest Spanish version.
I wonder if any detail will be published in terms of original of the noise and vibration issues and the solutions. As there seems to be debate on if it was poor QC from Spain, too much weight, engine mountings, the tracks not being installed optimally or a combination of everything.

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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BB85 wrote: 20 May 2024, 15:49 The new US variant with updated suspension only has 6 road wheel
No such thing. Booker has nothing in common with ASCOD.

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

Post by BB85 »

Yeah I can't see the commonality between Booker 10 and Ascod 2 / Ajax myself, just wiki articles which could using outdated information. If they are related the hull has been re-engineered beyond all recognition.
Different suspension, different engine, they have removed the distinctive step in the roof. The only thing they have in common is the driver is on the left hand side.
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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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BB85 wrote: 21 May 2024, 15:57 Yeah I can't see the commonality between Booker 10 and Ascod 2 / Ajax myself, just wiki articles which could using outdated information. If they are related the hull has been re-engineered beyond all recognition.
Different suspension, different engine, they have removed the distinctive step in the roof. The only thing they have in common is the driver is on the left hand side.
The confusion has arisen because to gauge US Army interest, GD built a concept vehicle with using bits and pieces from the parts bins across the world. Including ASCOD. Once the Army decided it likee, a competition was announced and GD designed and built a vehicle from the ground up using absolutely nothing from ASCOD.

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Re: Ajax Armoured Vehicles (British Army)

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Soldier reacts.
Ajax v CVR(T)
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