Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

For discussions on politics and current events.

Should the UK now withdraw from the Eurovision Song Contest ?!

:wave: Yes!
30
61%
:evil: No!
19
39%
 
Total votes: 49

dmereifield
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by dmereifield »

clinch wrote:
dmereifield wrote:
SDL wrote:Too many little children in Westminster getting into a hissy fit over not getting exactly what they wanted.... Hard Brexit was never on the table. We'd end up bankrupt if we went that route and no sensible human being would legitimately think it was a good idea.

To be blunt.
Define hard brexit
I can define Remain; it's May's plan:

Common Rule Book = Single Market

Facilitated Customs Arrangement = Customs Union

Joint Institutional Framework = ECJ

Mobility Framework = Freedom of Movement.
Indeed, and it will only be getting more remain-like as May continues to make further concessions...
Not just on this issue, but due to her actions across the board, May is looking like the worst PM of recent generations, and I include Blair in that. How she and Hammond made it to such high office when neither seem to have any vision, are tin eared and such poor communicators is completely lost on me

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SKB
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by SKB »

History records that the previous female Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher was booted out of 10 Downing Street after a no-confidence vote by the Conservative's 1922 Committee after the resignation of Sir Geoffrey Howe. The year? 1990. And coincidentally, England reached the World Cup semi-finals in Italia '90 !

Tonight, there is a 1922 Committee meeting and England are in another semi-final. Is history repeating itself?!

clinch
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by clinch »

dmereifield wrote:
clinch wrote:
dmereifield wrote:
SDL wrote:Too many little children in Westminster getting into a hissy fit over not getting exactly what they wanted.... Hard Brexit was never on the table. We'd end up bankrupt if we went that route and no sensible human being would legitimately think it was a good idea.

To be blunt.
Define hard brexit
I can define Remain; it's May's plan:

Common Rule Book = Single Market

Facilitated Customs Arrangement = Customs Union

Joint Institutional Framework = ECJ

Mobility Framework = Freedom of Movement.
Indeed, and it will only be getting more remain-like as May continues to make further concessions...
Not just on this issue, but due to her actions across the board, May is looking like the worst PM of recent generations, and I include Blair in that. How she and Hammond made it to such high office when neither seem to have any vision, are tin eared and such poor communicators is completely lost on me
She already was the worst PM in history in my view, closely followed by Cameron. What makes May's plan worse than ever is that it is, effectively, the status quo but without a vote. The UK becomes an EU colony.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

This is [The Spectator quote follows] what happens when you start to take orders from the outside; suddenly the interests are not as aligned as they were made to be:
"US ambassador to the UK Woody Johnson has told Radio 5 Live that, after the Chequers agreement, ‘I would say that the bilateral agreement [between the US and UK], whether we have one or not, is totally up in the air at this point.’ Last week Johnson said Donald Trump wants a bilateral free trade deal with the UK in place ‘as soon as possible’."
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Dave
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by Dave »

BoJo has just resigned.
Boris Johnson has resigned as foreign secretary, becoming the third minister in 24 hours to walk out of the government rather than back Theresa May’s plans for a soft Brexit.

The prime minister hammered out a compromise with her deeply divided cabinet in an all-day meeting at Chequers on Friday, but after consulting friends and allies since, Johnson decided he could not promote the deal.

A Downing Street spokesman said: “This afternoon, the prime minister accepted the resignation of Boris Johnson as foreign secretary. His replacement will be announced shortly. The prime minister thanks Boris for his work.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ary-brexit

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SKB
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by SKB »

SDL wrote:David Davis has buggered off from the Brexit secretary role.
Dave wrote:
Boris Johnson has resigned as foreign secretary
Image


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Pseudo
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by Pseudo »

That seems like a risky strategy since it seems at least as likely to result in a soft-Brexit cabinet and May immune to leadership challenges for a year as it is a new hard-Brexit PM.

SDL
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by SDL »

dmereifield wrote:
SDL wrote:Too many little children in Westminster getting into a hissy fit over not getting exactly what they wanted.... Hard Brexit was never on the table. We'd end up bankrupt if we went that route and no sensible human being would legitimately think it was a good idea.

To be blunt.
Define hard brexit
Walking away from everything... something that cannot be shown to improve things for us at all

matt00773
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by matt00773 »

The fundamental problem about all of this is that what Brexit means and what is then subsequently defined as a future EU relationship means something different to everyone. If you ask 1000 people what their views are you'll probably get 1000 different responses. I don't envy anyone in government who has to put all this together.

Whilst I support the exiting of the EU and a new global approach for the UK, there is a certain 'hard' position which I find hard to fathom and to me seems not to be based on reality. The UK wants a free trade agreement with the EU once leaving and also has to abide with the Good Friday Agreement with Ireland. When you also factor in the number of businesses which are very ingrained in the EU supply chain, I can't see many other ways than has been defined which will avoid impacting the economy and legal obligations. The fact is that the UK currently has no regulations, standards, trading framework of its own and the logical starting point is to continue with what has been defined in the EU. In fact the UK is going to keep running into this problem as it creates other trade agreements. Other countries and trading blocks already have things in place which the UK will have to duplicate / borrow. That's the simple reality of being inside a trading organisation for 40 years.

I appreciate that changing these goods regulations through parliament will be a challenge as it may affect the Ireland no border obligation, but given the time to do a deal and the certainty that UK business need, we have to start somewhere. The biggest part of the UK economy is services and this will be outside of this free trade deal. It is services which is the main growth area for UK internationally and will be the key factor in trade arrangements outside the EU. Given that standards and regulations on goods are converging internationally anyway, to me this matter is neither here nor there.

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SKB
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by SKB »

David Davis' resignation letter:
Image



Dear Prime Minister,

As you know there have been a significant number of occasions in the last year or so on which I have disagreed with the Number 10 policy line, ranging from accepting the Commission's sequencing of negotiations through to the language on Northern Ireland in the December Joint Report.

At each stage I have accepted collective responsibility because it is part of my task to find workable compromises, and because I considered it was still possible to deliver on the mandate of the referendum, and on our manifesto commitment to leave the Customs Union and the Single Market.

I am afraid that I think the current trend of policy and tactics is making that look less and less likely.

Whether it is the progressive dilution of what I thought was a firm Chequers agreement in February on right to diverge, or the unnecessary delays of the start of the White Paper, or the presentation of a backstop proposal that omitted the strict conditions that I requested and believed that we had agreed, the general direction of policy will leave us in at best a weak negotiating position, and possibly an inescapable one.

The Cabinet decision on Friday crystallised this problem.

In my view the inevitable consequence of the proposed policies will be to make the supposed control by Parliament illusory rather than real.
As I said at Cabinet, the "common rule book" policy hands control of large swathes of our economy to the EU and is certainly not returning control of our laws in any real sense.

I am also unpersuaded that our negotiating approach will not just lead to further demands for concessions.
Of course this is a complex area of judgement and it is possible that you are right and I am wrong.

However, even in that event it seems to me that the national interest requires a Secretary of State in my Department that is an enthusiastic believer in your approach, and not merely a reluctant conscript.

While I have been grateful to you for the opportunity to serve, it is with great regret that I tender my resignation from the Cabinet with immediate effect.

Yours ever,

David Davis

Theresa May's reply:



Dear David,

Thank you for your letter explaining your decision to resign as secretary of state for exiting the European Union.

I am sorry that you have chosen to leave the government when we have already made so much progress towards delivering a smooth and successful Brexit, and when we are only eight months from the date set in law when the United Kingdom will leave the European Union.

At Chequers on Friday, we as the cabinet agreed a comprehensive and detailed proposal which provides a precise, responsible and credible basis for progressing our negotiations towards a new relationship between the UK and the EU after we leave in March. We set out how we will deliver on the result of the referendum and the commitments we made in our manifesto for the 2017 general election:

1. Leaving the EU on 29 March 2019

2. Ending free movement and taking back control of our borders

3. No more sending vast sums of money each year to the EU

4. A new business-friendly customs model with freedom to strike new trade deals around the world

5. A UK-EU free trade area with a common rulebook for industrial goods and agricultural products which will be good for jobs

6. A commitment to maintain high standards on consumer and employment rights and the environment

7. A parliamentary lock on all new rules and regulations

8. Leaving the Common Agricultural Policy and the Common Fisheries Policy

9. Restoring the supremacy of British courts by ending the jurisdiction of the European Court of justice in the UK

10. No hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland, or between Northern Ireland and Great Britain

11. Continued close co-operation on security to keep our people safe

12. An independent foreign and defence policy, working closely with the EU and other allies.

This is consistent with the mandate of the referendum and with the commitments we laid out in our general election manifesto: leaving the single market and the customs union but seeking a deep and special partnership including a comprehensive free trade and customs agreement; ending the vast annual contributions to the EU; and pursuing fair, orderly negotiations, minimising disruption and giving as much certainty as possible so both sides benefit.

As we said in our manifesto, we believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our future partnership alongside our withdrawal, reaching agreement on both within the two years allowed by Article 50. I have always agreed with you that these two must go alongside one another, but if we are to get sufficient detail about our future partnership, we need to act now. We have made a significant move: it is for the EU now to respond in the same spirit.

I do not agree with your characterisation of the policy we agreed at Cabinet on Friday. Parliament will decide whether or not to back the deal the government negotiates, but that deal will undoubtedly mean the returning of powers from Brussels to the United Kingdom. The direct effect of EU law will end when we leave the EU. Where the UK chooses to apply a common rulebook, each rule will have to be agreed by Parliament. Choosing not to sign up to certain rules would lead to consequences for market access, security co-operation or the frictionless border, but that decision will rest with our sovereign Parliament, which will have a lock on whether to incorporate those rules into the UK legal order.

I am sorry that the government will not have the benefit of your continued expertise and counsel as we secure this deal and complete the process of leaving the EU, but I would like to thank you warmly for everything you have done over the past two years as Secretary of State to shape our departure from the EU, and the new role the UK will forge on the world stage as an independent, self-governing nation once again.

You returned to government after nineteen years to lead an entirely new department responsible for a vital, complex, and unprecedented task. You have helped to steer through Parliament some of the most important legislation for generations, including the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017 and the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, which received Royal Assent last week. These landmark Acts, and what they will do, stand as testament to your work and our commitment to honouring the result of the referendum.

Yours sincerely,

Theresa May.

Dominic Raab has replaced David Davis as Brexit Secretary
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44763998


Boris Johnson's resignation letter:
Image



Dear Theresa

It is more than two years since the British people voted to leave the European Union on an unambiguous and categorical promise that if they did so they would be taking back control of their democracy.

They were told that they would be able to manage their own immigration policy, repatriate the sums of UK cash currently spent by the EU, and, above all, that they would be able to pass laws independently and in the interests of the people of this country.

Brexit should be about opportunity and hope. It should be a chance to do things differently, to be more nimble and dynamic, and to maximise the particular advantages of the UK as an open, outward-looking global economy.

That dream is dying, suffocated by needless self-doubt.

We have postponed crucial decisions - including the preparations for no deal, as I argued in my letter to you of last November - with the result that we appear to be heading for a semi-Brexit, with large parts of the economy still locked in the EU system, but with no UK control over that system.
It now seems that the opening bid of our negotiations involves accepting that we are not actually going to be able to make our own laws. Indeed we seem to have gone backwards since the last Chequers meeting in February, when I described my frustrations, as Mayor of London, in trying to protect cyclists from juggernauts. We had wanted to lower the cabin windows to improve visibility; and even though such designs were already on the market, and even though there had been a horrific spate of deaths, mainly of female cyclists, we were told that we had to wait for the EU to legislate on the matter.

So at the previous Chequers session we thrashed out an elaborate procedure for divergence from EU rules. But even that now seems to have been taken off the table, and there is in fact no easy UK right of initiative. Yet if Brexit is to mean anything, it must surely give ministers and Parliament the chance to do things differently to protect the public. If a country cannot pass a law to save the lives of female cyclists - when that proposal is supported at every level of UK government - then I don't see how that country can truly be called independent.

Conversely, the British government has spent decades arguing against this or that EU directive, on the grounds that it was too burdensome or ill-thought out. We are now in the ludicrous position of asserting that we must accept huge amounts of precisely such EU law, without changing an iota, because it is essential for our economic health - and when we no longer have any ability to influence these laws as they are made.
In that respect we are truly headed for the status of colony - and many will struggle to see the economic or political advantages of that particular arrangement.

It is also clear that by surrendering control over our rulebook for goods and agrifoods (and much else besides) we will make it much more difficult to do free trade deals. And then there is the further impediment of having to argue for an impractical and undeliverable customs arrangement unlike any other in existence.

What is even more disturbing is that this is our opening bid. This is already how we see the end state for the UK - before the other side has made its counter-offer. It is as though we are sending our vanguard into battle with the white flags fluttering above them. Indeed, I was concerned, looking at Friday's document, that there might be further concessions on immigration, or that we might end up effectively paying for access to the single market.

On Friday I acknowledged that my side of the argument were too few to prevail, and congratulated you on at least reaching a cabinet decision on the way forward. As I said then, the government now has a song to sing. The trouble is that I have practised the words over the weekend and find that they stick in the throat. We must have collective responsibility. Since I cannot in all conscience champion these proposals, I have sadly concluded that I must go.

I am proud to have served as Foreign Secretary in your government. As I step down, I would like first to thank the patient officers of the Metropolitan Police who have looked after me and my family, at times in demanding circumstances. I am proud too of the extraordinary men and women of our diplomatic service. Over the last few months they have shown how many friends this country has around the world, as 28 governments expelled Russian spies in an unprecedented protest at the attempted assassination of the Skripals. They have organised a highly successful Commonwealth summit and secured record international support for this government's campaign for 12 years of quality education for every girl, and much more besides. As I leave office, the FCO now has the largest and by far the most effective diplomatic network of any country in Europe — a continent which we will never leave.

The Rt Hon Boris Johnson MP

Theresa May's reply:



Dear Boris,

Thank you for your letter relinquishing the office of Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs.

I am sorry - and a little surprised - to receive it after the productive discussions we had at Chequers on Friday, and the comprehensive and detailed proposal which we agreed as a Cabinet. It is a proposal which will honour the result of the referendum and the commitments we made in our general election manifesto to leave the single market and the customs union. It will mean that we take back control of our borders, our laws, and our money - ending the freedom of movement, ending the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in the United Kingdom, and ending the days of sending vast sums of taxpayers' money to the European Union. We will be able to spend that money on our priorities instead - such as the £20 billion increase we have announced for the NHS budget, which means that we will soon be spending an extra £394 million a week on our National Health Service.

As I outlined at Chequers, the agreement we reached requires the full, collective support of Her Majesty's Government. During the EU referendum campaign, collective responsibility on EU policy was temporarily suspended. As we developed our policy on Brexit, I have allowed Cabinet colleagues considerable latitude to express their individual views. But the agreement we reached on Friday marks the point where that is no longer the case, and if you are not able to provide the support we need to secure this deal in the interests of the United Kingdom, it is right that you should step down.

As you do so, I would like to place on record my appreciation of the service you have given to our country, and to the Conservative Party, as Mayor of London and as Foreign Secretary - not least for the passion that you have demonstrated in promoting a Global Britain to the world as we leave the European Union.

Yours ever,

Theresa May

Jeremy Hunt has replaced Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44774702

SDL
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by SDL »

Matt Hancock is the Health dude...

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Donald Tusk take on "all of this":

"Politicians come and go," he said. "But the problems they have created for the people remain. The mess caused by Brexit is the biggest problem in the history of EU-UK relations. And it is still very far from being solved."
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

dmereifield
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by dmereifield »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Donald Tusk take on "all of this":

"Politicians come and go," he said. "But the problems they have created for the people remain. The mess caused by Brexit is the biggest problem in the history of EU-UK relations. And it is still very far from being solved."
Politicians come and go because they are held accountable for their actions....unelected EU technocrats, officials and commissioners don't have to worry about such things, which highlights one of the main reasons we are leaving

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

dmereifield wrote:unelected EU technocrats, officials and commissioners don't have to worry about such things, which highlights one of the main reasons we are leaving
Alternative futures! Had it been Tony Blair, in Juncker's place :D
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

clinch
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by clinch »

This is a legal assessment of May's plan by a QC. It's not good.

http://lawyersforbritain.org/wp-content ... g-Memo.pdf

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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by Pseudo »

The Irish Times perfectly sums up the state of play.
When you take away all the heroic elements of Brexit, all the epic thrills of throwing off the oppressor and beginning a new history, what you are left with is just this – a country that has gone to enormous trouble to humiliate itself. Brexit has reached the point where the best possible outcome is the worst of both worlds, a state that is neither in nor out, neither on its own nor part of something larger.

This is what all the patriotic bombast has brought Britain to: a humble request that the EU play nice and grant it a subordinate status. Imagine that at some point in the past, the EU had actually offered this to the British. How dare they!

Can there be the slightest doubt that the British would have been up in arms, demanding nothing less than full EU membership? Has any country ever gone into international treaty negotiations hoping to emerge with a status greatly inferior to the one it already enjoys? What do we want? National humiliation. When do we want it? Now.

dmereifield
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by dmereifield »

Pseudo wrote:The Irish Times perfectly sums up the state of play.
When you take away all the heroic elements of Brexit, all the epic thrills of throwing off the oppressor and beginning a new history, what you are left with is just this – a country that has gone to enormous trouble to humiliate itself. Brexit has reached the point where the best possible outcome is the worst of both worlds, a state that is neither in nor out, neither on its own nor part of something larger.

This is what all the patriotic bombast has brought Britain to: a humble request that the EU play nice and grant it a subordinate status. Imagine that at some point in the past, the EU had actually offered this to the British. How dare they!

Can there be the slightest doubt that the British would have been up in arms, demanding nothing less than full EU membership? Has any country ever gone into international treaty negotiations hoping to emerge with a status greatly inferior to the one it already enjoys? What do we want? National humiliation. When do we want it? Now.
It is not "patriotic bombast" that has brought Britain to this point, rather a remain dominated Government, House of Commons, House of Parliament and media. The level of public apathy, or worse, that will result from this (Brexit in name only) is not something that should be welcomed. Respecting the democratic principles of the referendum vote, as was promised before hand, during May's campaign for Tory leadership and by both main parties in the GE of 2017 should be a higher priority than placating a hard core pro-EU very minor component of the electorate, who just so happen to be over-represented (dominant) in the political and media establishments.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

a country that has gone to enormous trouble to humiliate itself. Brexit has reached the point where the best possible outcome is the worst of both worlds, a state that is neither in nor out
What I have said all along: self-inflicted economic harm. The 80/20 rule invented in a new way: 80% downside for (max) 20% upside

And it goes beyond that. We were at the top of World Soft Power index, and now those who are adverse to us are laughing at us and those who are friends are trying to keep a straight face (with the occasional twitch getting through such a forced expression).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by Pseudo »

dmereifield wrote:It is not "patriotic bombast" that has brought Britain to this point,
It really is. There isn't a rational argument for Brexit and there never was. You don't take back sovereignty by giving up influence with your largest trading partners and closest neighbours. Brexit is all about warm and fuzzy nationalistic feelings. It's Winston Churchill drinking a pint of real ale while flying a Spitfire over Wembley Stadium during the 1966 World Cup Final just as Geoff Hurst completes his hat-trick. And it's just as fantastical.
rather a remain dominated Government, House of Commons, House of Parliament and media. The level of public apathy, or worse, that will result from this (Brexit in name only) is not something that should be welcomed.
I agree. Public apathy about what the consequences of any Brexit will be has been truly worrying.
Respecting the democratic principles of the referendum vote, as was promised before hand, during May's campaign for Tory leadership and by both main parties in the GE of 2017 should be a higher priority than placating a hard core pro-EU very minor component of the electorate,
That very minor component numbered 16,141,241 in the 2016 referendum. If that is a very minor component of the electorate then the 17,410,742 who voted to leave can't be much less minor. In which case the question of why we were enacting major and damaging change due to the wishes of a minor component of the electorate, really should be asked.
who just so happen to be over-represented (dominant) in the political and media establishments.
The flaw in your assumption is thinking that Brexit could have ever been anything other than a colossal clusterfuck. The promises made by the Leave campaign were impossible ones. You can blame Remainers all you like, but the reality is that Brexiteers had no plan to realise their fantasy of Brexit and still don't. All they can do is blame others for their inability to deliver on their promises. If you want to blame someone for Brexit being an utter shambles then it's not those who knew that it would be a shambles and voted against it that you should be directing your ire at, it's those who sold you an impossible fantasy.

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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Pseudo wrote:directing your ire at[, it's] those who sold you an impossible fantasy
It is a pity that the cocktail p[arty joke has gone stale; this is from soon after the 3 Musketeers had been nominated (to act as a lightning rod, between the inevitable failures and the PM herself):

Someone asked DD "what if" all of this won't work?

DD: I'll be retired, and Boris will have to clean up :lolno:
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by SDL »

clinch wrote:This is a legal assessment of May's plan by a QC. It's not good.

http://lawyersforbritain.org/wp-content ... g-Memo.pdf
That link code makes me think they're a little biased...

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

SDL wrote:That link [code[ makes me think they're a little biased...
Just a tad. I have been saying that we are aiming somewhere in the middle of the treaties that Turkey and Ukraine have secured - have been saying that for a year, so nothing new from Chequers
- they are saying :D we will end up on a par with Moldova... so we are making good progress with these negotiations then :lolno:
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by jedibeeftrix »

Howes View appears to be well regarded, but it is not the only view.

https://www.conservativehome.com/thetor ... uffle.html

Saw this referenced in a tweet, interested to hear more about what he has to say in the 22 Committee.

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Re: Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

Post by Pseudo »

This is starting to sound promising.

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