Brexit - The UK's EU Referendum & Withdrawal

[Pseudo]

isn't as you'd contended

Well, I did mean to write (looking back ) legitimacy, not legacy... would that help?

That's been its purpose since day one in 1993

Now this quote takes me back to the linked word (with the first quote): "hijacked"
- the main reason for writing the post in the first place was to challenge their 60 (members) with the verify-able (different from having been verified, I note , to avoid further dissonance)
- as for the membership over the years - remember: Maastricht became a fact and lobbying got ferocious, again, after a lull - BBC researchers gave as one of the conclusions "But while it has been said that the ERG is a group of "hard-line Brexiteers", BBC research shows that members of the group, past and present, come from all sides of the EU referendum debate." from which state of affairs it has drifted to your appropriate term "hard nutters".
- The speed of that in unverified (well, let's have someone have a go at it ) and hence I used the word hijack... instead of "drift".

Nah. It was started by Maastricht rebel nutters and has ended up being populated with hard-brexit nutters and it's been hard-eurosceptic nutters all the way in between.

[ArmChairCivvy]

and it's been hard-eurosceptic nutters all the way in between.

I do accept that you probably know more (than me) about that intervening period.

[ArmChairCivvy]

More clarification, BBC quotes on April 29 "European Commission spokeswoman, Mina Andreeva said they would "not negotiate mini-deals"["]
- at some point it became fashionable to call 6-12 mnth 'stand-still' arrangements "mini-deals"
... shock absorbers, more like

[dmereifield]

More clarification, BBC quotes on April 29 "European Commission spokeswoman, Mina Andreeva said they would "not negotiate mini-deals"["]
- at some point it became fashionable to call 6-12 mnth 'stand-still' arrangements "mini-deals"
... shock absorbers, more like

Deals outside the of the WA - call them whatever you like. The point is if we leave without the WA more will be agreed and they will be extended as required until a more enduring arrangement is reached

[SKB]

This is an example postal ballot form for the upcoming EU Parliament elections.
Note the Brexit Party's well designed logo which seems to imply in which box to put your X mark in.

[dmereifield]

This is an example postal ballot form for the upcoming EU Parliament elections.
Note the Brexit Party's well designed logo which seems to imply in which box to put your X mark in.

They stupidly registered as *THE* Brexit Party. Had they gone with Brexit Party they would have been listed first...some suggestions that might have garnered them another 2-3% of the vote if they did (no idea how valid that claim is - but being listed first wouldn't have been a bad thing that's for sure)

[SKB]

The six week long Conservative-Labour Brexit talks have collapsed without any deal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48304867

[ArmChairCivvy]

... AND:
Corbyn of course says that : the ‘increasing weakness and instability’ of the government ‘means there cannot be confidence in securing whatever might be agreed between us’.
- Spectator puts it that: He adds that ‘without significant changes, we will continue to oppose the government’s deal’.

Theresa May, on her part, said ‘we have not been able to overcome the fact that there is not a common position in Labour about whether they want to deliver Brexit or hold a second referendum which could reverse it’.

Take away the 'pint' i.e. Farage
... and within the rest of the vote we will see who believes whom
AND, more particularly: what part of the voting population does not want Brexit of any colours

[RetroSicotte]

And exactly as predicted, said parties screwing around and the threat of Farage being there again is doing wonders to ensure the UK is about to split in half even if it Remains.

SNP openly saying they'll aim to hold a ref in 21 regardless of outcome now.

Funny how all the people say "Take back the UK!" about this, despite their very aim being the thing that's going to destroy it even if they do "succeed".

[dmereifield]

SNP will always try to take Scotland out of the EU, whether the UK is in or out of the EU

[Halidon]

SNP will always try to take Scotland out of the EU, whether the UK is in or out of the EU

What SNP does is less important than what the majority of Scottish voters support, based on how well they believe London is or isn't looking out for them. If Parliament crashes the UK out of the EU, a whole lot more of those voters will be leaning "isn't."

[dmereifield]

SNP will always try to take Scotland out of the EU, whether the UK is in or out of the EU

What SNP does is less important than what the majority of Scottish voters support, based on how well they believe London is or isn't looking out for them. If Parliament crashes the UK out of the EU, a whole lot more of those voters will be leaning "isn't."

Fair point

[ArmChairCivvy]

The dominos keep falling...
"the fall in the pound since 2016 should have helped British Steel, making its exports to the rest of the EU cheaper. But that has not been enough to counter the mass of cheap steel that is coming out of China. The Scunthorpe plant very nearly closed in 2016, when its then owner Tata Steel, decided to jettison it.

In the event it instead sold the plant to private equity group Greybull Capital for £1. What has happened since? Global steel prices have fallen by a further 20 per cent."

... and parity (FX) keeps beckoning

What will be "left"?

Services industry that the idiotic negotiating strategy has either ignored (past tense) or will put under the regulatory (=NTB) guillotine (as described many times upthread)
... there no moticon for tearing the hair out

[R686]

The dominos keep falling...
"the fall in the pound since 2016 should have helped British Steel, making its exports to the rest of the EU cheaper. But that has not been enough to counter the mass of cheap steel that is coming out of China. The Scunthorpe plant very nearly closed in 2016, when its then owner Tata Steel, decided to jettison it.

In the event it instead sold the plant to private equity group Greybull Capital for £1. What has happened since? Global steel prices have fallen by a further 20 per cent."

... and parity (FX) keeps beckoning

What will be "left"?

Services industry that the idiotic negotiating strategy has either ignored (past tense) or will put under the regulatory (=NTB) guillotine (as described many times upthread)
... there no moticon for tearing the hair out

So really Brexit is not really the downfall of the company, it’s been on it’s last legs for sometime before Brexit was thought of?

But the current shenanigans was the final nail in the coffin.

[Pseudo]

So really Brexit is not really the downfall of the company, it’s been on it’s last legs for sometime before Brexit was thought of?

But the current shenanigans was the final nail in the coffin.

I'm sure that the knowledge that Brexit was merely the straw that broke the camels back will be of immense comfort to those that lose their jobs.

[Dave]

SNP will always try to take Scotland out of the EU, whether the UK is in or out of the EU

Could you explain why you think that?

It appears to be the exact opposite of the SNP policy.

https://www.snp.org/policies/pb-what-is ... on-the-eu/

[SKB]

Retired Para Don McNaughton from Aldershot, who is in his 80s, served in the Parachute Regiment for 22-years.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... n-wearing/

[abc123]

SNP will always try to take Scotland out of the EU, whether the UK is in or out of the EU

Could you explain why you think that?

It appears to be the exact opposite of the SNP policy.

https://www.snp.org/policies/pb-what-is ... on-the-eu/

I think that he mistyped, he wanted to say that the SNP will allways try to get Scotland out of the UK, whether the UK is in or out of the EU.

[dmereifield]

So really Brexit is not really the downfall of the company, it’s been on it’s last legs for sometime before Brexit was thought of?

But the current shenanigans was the final nail in the coffin.

I'm sure that the knowledge that Brexit was merely the straw that broke the camels back will be of immense comfort to those that lose their jobs.

You are aware that the Government cannot provide the support that British Steel have requested, which could save those jobs, becuase it would infringe EU state aid rules. I.e. it's our EU membership that's costing those jobs now

[dmereifield]

SNP will always try to take Scotland out of the EU, whether the UK is in or out of the EU

Could you explain why you think that?

It appears to be the exact opposite of the SNP policy.

https://www.snp.org/policies/pb-what-is ... on-the-eu/

I think that he mistyped, he wanted to say that the SNP will allways try to get Scotland out of the UK, whether the UK is in or out of the EU.

Correct, I mistyped

[Pseudo]

You are aware that the Government cannot provide the support that British Steel have requested, which could save those jobs, becuase it would infringe EU state aid rules. I.e. it's our EU membership that's costing those jobs now

It's funny how EU state aid laws are always blamed for government unwillingness rescue British industries, except when it comes to financial institutions. EU state aid rules don't seem to be much of a problem for other EU member states, for example when France nationalised the Chantiers de l'Atlantique shipyard a couple of years ago and when Germany renationalised the Bundesdruckerei a decade ago. Heck, they weren't a problem for the UK last year when the East Coast railway was nationalised following the collapse of Virgin East Coast after Chris Grayling glanced in its general direction. Nor was it a problem for the Scottish government in 2013 when it nationalised Glasgow Prestwick Airport or for the Welsh government when it purchased Cardiff Airport in the same year.

Here's a fun fact for you. In 2016 Germany spent 1.31% of its GDP on state aid excluding railways. More than three and a half times as much as the UK did as a percentage of GDP.

[Pseudo]

Retired Para Don McNaughton from Aldershot, who is in his 80s, served in the Parachute Regiment for 22-years.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... n-wearing/

Maybe not.

[Caribbean]

It's funny how EU state aid laws are always blamed for government unwillingness rescue British industries, except when it comes to financial institutions.

a) the European Commission approved State aid for troubled banks under Article 87(3)(c) and art 87(3)(b) of the EC Treaty and the Rescue and Restructuring Guidelines, which is deployed only exceptionally in the case of a systemic economic crisis, primarily due to pressure from the French and German finance ministers. Basically, the collapse of Lehman Brothers scared them shitless.
b) the same rules were then applied to all the other EU members, including the UK
c) the financial institutions in receipt of such aid were unable to pay dividends and had various other restrictions applied until they returned to "normal operations"
d) the loss of 25,000 jobs is as nothing compared to the collapse of the entire Western world's banking system (which would have brought down the rest of the worlds financial system with it). Even the "ordained-by-God" EU had to recognise that. Exceptional times require the exceptional turning of blind eyes.

EU state aid rules don't seem to be much of a problem for other EU member states, for example when France nationalised the Chantiers de l'Atlantique shipyard a couple of years ago and when Germany renationalised the Bundesdruckerei a decade ago.

Again, special rules for France and Germany.

they weren't a problem for the UK last year when the East Coast railway was nationalised

EU rules on nationalisation don't apply to railways in the way that you might think. They don't prevent nationalisation of segments of a railway system. There was a proposal to prevent the operation of any form of nationalised railways some years ago, but it was "not progressed" after pressure from certain EU members. I'll let you guess who objected to the proposed controls being passed into EU law.

[Pseudo]

Again, special rules for France and Germany.

I think it more likely that as usual, a Conservative government is blaming EU "rules" for its own unwillingness to protect the strategic industrial capacity of the UK. It seems to me that if there are "special rules" they are for member states that are willing to make special efforts.

[SKB]

Maybe not.

^
The @joshwoogsmotogp account has been suspended. I wonder why?
#FakeNews....