UK Future Vertical Lift Programme
Posted: 15 Jul 2020, 13:45
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The V-247 is already designed for carrier use as it’s been designed for USMC requirements of AEW, EW, Reaper style attack and is designed to fit in the hanger of an AB destroyer. The target price from them is also aimed at around the £25mbper unit so not to bad if they can hit that.Scimitar54 wrote:V-280 and V-247 might, if considerably modified might be capable of Carrier use. However, who is going to fund the re-design to include folding wings etc.
Do the USN or USMC need them? They already have the MV-22, so probably not. Leaves the question, who will fund a Carrier version? Probably no one, as too few aircraft will be required to have folding wings to persuade the manufacturer to do so. Will the MoD pay for this? I do not think so!
Sadly, if we want a “tilt-rotor”, it will have to be the same as the USN and USMC use. At the moment, that is the MV-22. If we want to play, then we will have to pay the price, expensive though they may be! The V-280 and V-247 are not likely to provide either a Free (or Cheap) Lunch alternative!
If the V-280 is chosen by the US army wouldn’t a folding wing be necessary or at least make more sence for transport.Scimitar54 wrote:V-247 is a concept, which Bell is looking for the USMC to fund the development of! It is true that the concept proposes that it can be carried aboard an Arleigh-Burke. A long way off at the present time though, I would say.
V-280 is US Army led, so why would they want to pay for it to have a folding wing? If they do, or if it had this as designed, surely they would argue that they don’t need the folding wing, in order to reduce cost/ be able to afford more!
Oh I agree this 10 years away at least.Scimitar54 wrote:Maybe! However, it will be a very long way off.
I don’t really see the V-280 as a competitor to the V-22 but more of a complimentary aircraft, when you look at there size, there lift capacity and troop load they both fit in to different areas. To me the V-22 sits between a merlin and chinook in the above where as the V-280 sits between the wildcat and the merlin.Scimitar54 wrote:I don’t know if they are! I do know that Bell want them to, but that is not necessarily the same thing. I guess that there would have to be a certain lack of satisfaction with the MV-22 for that to happen, or the further passage of time!
If the Brits are buying even more american aircraft it can kiss goodbye to it's domestic production base.jonas wrote:https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... nt-with-us
Not necessary, they're more likely to self deploy.Jake1992 wrote:If the V-280 is chosen by the US army wouldn’t a folding wing be necessary or at least make more sence for transport.
Yeah it's like Chinook and Puma, both fill different gaps and can be operated side by side.Jake1992 wrote:I don’t really see the V-280 as a competitor to the V-22 but more of a complimentary aircraft
Would they self deploy over long distance though as to the mild east or Far East. Iv never known any helo or tilt rotor do this they are all transported by either heavy lift planes or ship, which in either case folding wings are at least better if not required.shark bait wrote:If the Brits are buying even more american aircraft it can kiss goodbye to it's domestic production base.jonas wrote:https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... nt-with-us
Not necessary, they're more likely to self deploy.Jake1992 wrote:If the V-280 is chosen by the US army wouldn’t a folding wing be necessary or at least make more sence for transport.
Yeah it's like Chinook and Puma, both fill different gaps and can be operated side by side.Jake1992 wrote:I don’t really see the V-280 as a competitor to the V-22 but more of a complimentary aircraft
Where from as that is interesting.SW1 wrote:Chinook self deployed to Sierra leone
Deployed 3000 miles from RAF Odiham over a couple of daysJake1992 wrote:Where from as that is interesting.SW1 wrote:Chinook self deployed to Sierra leone
Did they conduct AAR ?
That is interesting but would the US army look at deploying all helos / tilt rotors that way from the US to the Middle East or Far East considering the numbers they’d deploy ?SW1 wrote:Deployed 3000 miles from RAF Odiham over a couple of daysJake1992 wrote:Where from as that is interesting.SW1 wrote:Chinook self deployed to Sierra leone
Did they conduct AAR ?
The US has an ocean to cross to get to Europe or the Far East so there requirements are different. That’s why they keep fwd deployed units in both locations.Jake1992 wrote:That is interesting but would the US army look at deploying all helos / tilt rotors that way from the US to the Middle East or Far East considering the numbers they’d deploy ?SW1 wrote:Deployed 3000 miles from RAF Odiham over a couple of daysJake1992 wrote:Where from as that is interesting.SW1 wrote:Chinook self deployed to Sierra leone
Did they conduct AAR ?
That’s what Iv been trying to get at, to forward deploy or rapidly deploy extra they need to be transport from the US in the first place either by air or by ship in either case a V-280 with need to have its wing removed ( doubt that’d be easy ) or be purchased with the folding wing.SW1 wrote:The US has an ocean to cross to get to Europe or the Far East so there requirements are different. That’s why they keep fwd deployed units in both locations.Jake1992 wrote:That is interesting but would the US army look at deploying all helos / tilt rotors that way from the US to the Middle East or Far East considering the numbers they’d deploy ?SW1 wrote:Deployed 3000 miles from RAF Odiham over a couple of daysJake1992 wrote:Where from as that is interesting.SW1 wrote:Chinook self deployed to Sierra leone
Did they conduct AAR ?
How the US intends to deploy aircraft from the US is of little concern of ours. Like with Puma, wildcat or chinook, a requirement can be set to its disassemble/reassembly for air transport in a set time with set number of people and associated equipment.Jake1992 wrote:That’s what Iv been trying to get at, to forward deploy or rapidly deploy extra they need to be transport from the US in the first place either by air or by ship in either case a V-280 with need to have its wing removed ( doubt that’d be easy ) or be purchased with the folding wing.SW1 wrote:The US has an ocean to cross to get to Europe or the Far East so there requirements are different. That’s why they keep fwd deployed units in both locations.Jake1992 wrote:That is interesting but would the US army look at deploying all helos / tilt rotors that way from the US to the Middle East or Far East considering the numbers they’d deploy ?SW1 wrote:Deployed 3000 miles from RAF Odiham over a couple of daysJake1992 wrote:Where from as that is interesting.SW1 wrote:Chinook self deployed to Sierra leone
Did they conduct AAR ?
The V-280 (with folding wings) is an obvious replacement for the UH-1Y... But i can't see the Marines looking for a replacement for a long time.Jake1992 wrote:I don’t really see the V-280 as a competitor to the V-22 but more of a complimentary aircraft, when you look at there size, there lift capacity and troop load they both fit in to different areas. To me the V-22 sits between a merlin and chinook in the above where as the V-280 sits between the wildcat and the merlin.
If like I said up thread the US army got for the Defiant family the V-280 could not only be a nice complimentary aircraft for the V-22 in the USMC but could also replace all medium aircraft in the USN with it being hanger capable for the whole fleet.
Regardless we will end up following the US lead at least out side of ASW helos I believe.
I agree merlins are 15-20 years away from replacement.Little J wrote:The V-280 (with folding wings) is an obvious replacement for the UH-1Y... But i can't see the Marines looking for a replacement for a long time.Jake1992 wrote:I don’t really see the V-280 as a competitor to the V-22 but more of a complimentary aircraft, when you look at there size, there lift capacity and troop load they both fit in to different areas. To me the V-22 sits between a merlin and chinook in the above where as the V-280 sits between the wildcat and the merlin.
If like I said up thread the US army got for the Defiant family the V-280 could not only be a nice complimentary aircraft for the V-22 in the USMC but could also replace all medium aircraft in the USN with it being hanger capable for the whole fleet.
Regardless we will end up following the US lead at least out side of ASW helos I believe.
And does anybody else think the Defiant looks absolutely enormous for what it does? I remember the concept video that had something S-76 sized...