Ineos Grenadier

For everything else UK defence-related that doesn't fit into any of the sections above.
Luke jones
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Ineos Grenadier

Post by Luke jones »

Any thoughts on the Army looking at it?

Caribbean
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by Caribbean »

For those of us who don't know what it is
https://ineosgrenadier.com/reveal
Looks interesting.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Luke jones
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by Luke jones »

I definately want one. Be good if they do build in Bridgend rather than France.

bobp
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by bobp »

Yes it looks good, reminds me of a Land Rover defender.

dmereifield
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by dmereifield »

A sizeable order from the MoD (or the Government via industrial investment) might help ensure the factory goes ahead in Wales, as originally planned

Timmymagic
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by Timmymagic »

Caribbean wrote:For those of us who don't know what it is
https://ineosgrenadier.com/reveal
Looks interesting.
The video on the design is comedy gold. You can see they've been told to refer to Land Rover or Defender as little as possible, despite the fact its a near perfect clone..

Ultimately this needs to come in at the right price. If its not made in the UK it will struggle against twin cab pickups from the likes of Ford, Nissan or VW for the Army. It really needs to offer better performance that the LR Wolf as well, particularly in economy and a pathway to either all electric or hybrid.

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SKB
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by SKB »

Some Ineos Grenadier photos.

Image
Image

And some background videos of the Ineos Grenadier's development.


(Ineos) 18th September 2019





(Ineos Automotive) March-July 2020

Caribbean
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by Caribbean »

Timmymagic wrote: You can see they've been told to refer to Land Rover or Defender as little as possible, despite the fact its a near perfect clone..
Personally, I would have said that there's more than a touch of G Wagon in there as well. But, as you say, price will be the big determining factor on it's success, as well as where it's built.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

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Zero Gravitas
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by Zero Gravitas »

Timmymagic wrote:
Caribbean wrote:For those of us who don't know what it is
https://ineosgrenadier.com/reveal
Looks interesting.
The video on the design is comedy gold. You can see they've been told to refer to Land Rover or Defender as little as possible, despite the fact its a near perfect clone..

Ultimately this needs to come in at the right price. If its not made in the UK it will struggle against twin cab pickups from the likes of Ford, Nissan or VW for the Army. It really needs to offer better performance that the LR Wolf as well, particularly in economy and a pathway to either all electric or hybrid.
They have some sort of link up with BMW on an ultra low emission vehicle, but I also think they have a hydrogen solution in the works. Hydrogen is a major side product of Ineos apparently.

I read that the back and the rear doors are designed to fit a standard size pallet which has to be good for logistics.

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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by Ron5 »

A few rich guys aiming to get richer by ripping off Land Rover legacy by building a lookalike in Germany with middle east (?) money. Whats not to like. No doubt Knightsbridge will be full of them any day now.

Designer looked a right hippy with his gypsy caravan. Very insightful interview - not - tough to not say,"well I just traced over a land rover design didn't I mate".

British Army? Gimme a break. They got real Land Rovers by the thousands.

Caribbean
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by Caribbean »

Ron5 wrote:A few rich guys aiming to get richer by ripping off Land Rover legacy by building a lookalike in Germany with middle east (?) money
... in reality, a $60b UK-based multi-national company that thinks that Tata had dropped a bollock by vacating a specific niche market "because it was too expensive to re-design the Land Rover Defender to meet modern emissions and safety standards" (and replaced it with a jelly-mould SUV) and did just that, designing a vehicle from scratch, to meet both those standards and the needs of that market.

It'll all depend on how much they cost. Too expensive and we'll probably be seeing a lot of khaki Toyotas on UK roads

The Army is going to need something to start replacing the old Landies at some point in the next 5-10 years, so why not these, particularly if a large part of them can be built in the UK. As for the Knightsbridge gibe, plenty of people drove Land Rover Counties while the Defender was in production - it didn't make the Defender any less capable.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

bobp
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by bobp »

Caribbean wrote:It'll all depend on how much they cost. Too expensive and we'll probably be seeing a lot of khaki Toyotas on UK roads
I hope they do get built in the UK, especially if the MOD orders some.

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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by Ron5 »

Of course in the States we have the Jeep Wrangler which has just come out in pickup form and later this year will have a plug in hybrid across the range. I think they are made in Italy, not sure, maybe just designed there. Jeep is part of Fiat I think.

Anyhoo, I quite fancy the electric one, supposed to recharge overnight from a regular socket and give 30 to 50 miles of 100% electric driving before the gas kicks in. Seeing I have free electric thanks to solar panels and 95% of my trips are less than 50 miles and can be done with a pickup....

Mind you these days gas is $2 a gallon or less so its not a huge saving but still anything for the planet.

And Jeeps don't cost the earth unlike these Grenadiers will.

My guess if the BA ever need a land rover replacement, it will come with a Nissan or Kia badge.

Little J
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by Little J »

I think now that JLR are going to monocoque chassis' Ineos should be knocking on Bowler and Supacat's doors...

RunningStrong
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by RunningStrong »

bobp wrote:
Caribbean wrote:It'll all depend on how much they cost. Too expensive and we'll probably be seeing a lot of khaki Toyotas on UK roads
I hope they do get built in the UK, especially if the MOD orders some.
The intention was always to get the engine from BMW and the chassis made in Portugal. I just can't see the MOD putting in an order for >1000 units to justify a UK facility assembling British specials.

Will MRV-P replace LR BFA?

dmereifield
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by dmereifield »

RunningStrong wrote:
bobp wrote:
Caribbean wrote:It'll all depend on how much they cost. Too expensive and we'll probably be seeing a lot of khaki Toyotas on UK roads
I hope they do get built in the UK, especially if the MOD orders some.
The intention was always to get the engine from BMW and the chassis made in Portugal. I just can't see the MOD putting in an order for >1000 units to justify a UK facility assembling British specials.

Will MRV-P replace LR BFA?
I think the intention was to have BMW make the engines in Germany and have the chassis and assembly done in Wales. However, given that Covid has caused car factory closures across the continent there are now a number of factories available that would likely be cheaper/easier than setting up a new site in Wales. Hence, they've paused activity in Wales to review the new options on the continent. Radcliffe has always been clear that he wanted it built in the UK, so I'd not be surprised if this is half aimed at trying to leverage some additional support from UK/Welsh Government

RunningStrong
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by RunningStrong »

dmereifield wrote:
RunningStrong wrote:
bobp wrote:
Caribbean wrote:It'll all depend on how much they cost. Too expensive and we'll probably be seeing a lot of khaki Toyotas on UK roads
I hope they do get built in the UK, especially if the MOD orders some.
The intention was always to get the engine from BMW and the chassis made in Portugal. I just can't see the MOD putting in an order for >1000 units to justify a UK facility assembling British specials.

Will MRV-P replace LR BFA?
I think the intention was to have BMW make the engines in Germany and have the chassis and assembly done in Wales. However, given that Covid has caused car factory closures across the continent there are now a number of factories available that would likely be cheaper/easier than setting up a new site in Wales. Hence, they've paused activity in Wales to review the new options on the continent. Radcliffe has always been clear that he wanted it built in the UK, so I'd not be surprised if this is half aimed at trying to leverage some additional support from UK/Welsh Government
Nope. The dreaded A word, assembly, is all that was planned in Wales. Esterajja, Portugal is where the chassis and body were being made, engine at BMW engine plant, assembly in Wales.

There is no more goodwill from Cardiff Bay. They've already pulled out all the stops and they alone has started the ground work on the Bridgend site.

dmereifield
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by dmereifield »

Ok, well just the assembly then. I suspect there might be some more room for goodwill, the Welsh won't want to lose it this late in the game, and I'm sure Boris et al. would hate to have this dent the post Brexit/Post Covid "make in UK"/levelling up agenda. Whether its sufficient to win against a dirt cheap, soon to be vacant, factory in Spain/France/Germany and Spanish/French/German state support, we'll find out soon enough

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Tempest414
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by Tempest414 »

Ron5 wrote:Of course in the States we have the Jeep Wrangler which has just come out in pickup form and later this year will have a plug in hybrid across the range. I think they are made in Italy, not sure, maybe just designed there. Jeep is part of Fiat I think.

Anyhoo, I quite fancy the electric one, supposed to recharge overnight from a regular socket and give 30 to 50 miles of 100% electric driving before the gas kicks in. Seeing I have free electric thanks to solar panels and 95% of my trips are less than 50 miles and can be done with a pickup....

Mind you these days gas is $2 a gallon or less so its not a huge saving but still anything for the planet.

And Jeeps don't cost the earth unlike these Grenadiers will.

My guess if the BA ever need a land rover replacement, it will come with a Nissan or Kia badge.
We had a all electric minibus at a company I worked for ran well for 3 years then it needed new batteries which cost £3500 + £ 800 to dispose of the old ones electric cars make me laugh the batteries crap out after 3 or so and the batteries need special disposal in a few years the new problem facing the planet will be the millions of batteries from electric cars

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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by RunningStrong »

Tempest414 wrote: We had a all electric minibus at a company I worked for ran well for 3 years then it needed new batteries which cost £3500 + £ 800 to dispose of the old ones electric cars make me laugh the batteries crap out after 3 or so and the batteries need special disposal in a few years the new problem facing the planet will be the millions of batteries from electric cars
So it did 100,000 miles in 3 years?

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Tempest414
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by Tempest414 »

RunningStrong wrote:
Tempest414 wrote: We had a all electric minibus at a company I worked for ran well for 3 years then it needed new batteries which cost £3500 + £ 800 to dispose of the old ones electric cars make me laugh the batteries crap out after 3 or so and the batteries need special disposal in a few years the new problem facing the planet will be the millions of batteries from electric cars
So it did 100,000 miles in 3 years?
NO but it still needed doing

topman
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by topman »

Tempest414 wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Of course in the States we have the Jeep Wrangler which has just come out in pickup form and later this year will have a plug in hybrid across the range. I think they are made in Italy, not sure, maybe just designed there. Jeep is part of Fiat I think.

Anyhoo, I quite fancy the electric one, supposed to recharge overnight from a regular socket and give 30 to 50 miles of 100% electric driving before the gas kicks in. Seeing I have free electric thanks to solar panels and 95% of my trips are less than 50 miles and can be done with a pickup....

Mind you these days gas is $2 a gallon or less so its not a huge saving but still anything for the planet.

And Jeeps don't cost the earth unlike these Grenadiers will.

My guess if the BA ever need a land rover replacement, it will come with a Nissan or Kia badge.
We had a all electric minibus at a company I worked for ran well for 3 years then it needed new batteries which cost £3500 + £ 800 to dispose of the old ones electric cars make me laugh the batteries crap out after 3 or so and the batteries need special disposal in a few years the new problem facing the planet will be the millions of batteries from electric cars
You worked that out based on a sample size of one?

RunningStrong
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by RunningStrong »

Tempest414 wrote:
RunningStrong wrote:
Tempest414 wrote: We had a all electric minibus at a company I worked for ran well for 3 years then it needed new batteries which cost £3500 + £ 800 to dispose of the old ones electric cars make me laugh the batteries crap out after 3 or so and the batteries need special disposal in a few years the new problem facing the planet will be the millions of batteries from electric cars
So it did 100,000 miles in 3 years?
NO but it still needed doing
So unless it as something homebrew on lead acid batteries, then it was definitely still in warranty of 5 years and 100,000 miles.

I call BS.

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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by Lord Jim »

Replacement battery packs for Electric Cars when they existing ones deteriorate are not covered under warranty in most cases. Some companies are looking at a scheme where the owner leases the battery pack, which is then replaced when required. spreads the cost out over X number of years. I do not know how recyclable these batteries are, but they are not done so easily it puts another cloud over Electric car together with the old "Where is all the extra electricity for all these electric cars going to come from?" especially in the UK which has very little generating capacity left.

RunningStrong
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Re: Ineos Grenadier

Post by RunningStrong »

Lord Jim wrote:Replacement battery packs for Electric Cars when they existing ones deteriorate are not covered under warranty in most cases. Some companies are looking at a scheme where the owner leases the battery pack, which is then replaced when required. spreads the cost out over X number of years. I do not know how recyclable these batteries are, but they are not done so easily it puts another cloud over Electric car together with the old "Where is all the extra electricity for all these electric cars going to come from?" especially in the UK which has very little generating capacity left.
All Electric cars sold in the UK and Europe are covered by a battery and drivetrain warranty that's in the realm of 8 years and 100,000 miles. Most come with a caveat they will replace the battery if capacity is less than 80% the originally stated value. However, apart from the original Nissan Leafs which had small batteries and no active thermal management, no suppliers are seeing that level of battery capacity loss over that period, or well beyond.

Renault has abandoned battery lease because it's unpopular and unnecessary. No one else is considering it.

Batteries that aren't used in cars are still perfectly good for second Life use in domestic, industrial and grid storage solutions. Hundreds of Nissan batteries are currently being used at football stadiums.

Often batteries only see cells or packs dragging down the whole unit voltage, there are several companies that will now identify and replace only the aged units, restoring your battery to near-new performance.

The UK has loads of capacity. The average UK owners only does 8000 miles a year. You can rapid charge just once a week and achieve that mileage, or plugin in just one evening a week at home.

The National Grid publish Future Energy Scenarios every year, and every year they say "we got this". Recently, the grid has been paying people to consume electricity. People are being paid to charge their cars.

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