The war in Ukraine

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NickC
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Jdam wrote: 24 Feb 2024, 19:07 Its not a small missile you would expect a AEW&C to be able to see a S-200 coming, if it cant see that what chance does it have against an F-22 or F-35 :wtf:

I don't think any air force if that incompetent to shot down their own AEW&C :think:

I just wonder if we are seeing the true capability of Patriot.
The S-200 long range AAW system was in wide spread use in the Soviet Block, Wikipedia quotes over 2000 launchers in operation the '80's and '90's and Poland updated their missiles as late as 1999 to 2002.

Reported the A-50 released numerous flares but as the S-200 uses semi-active RF seeker would have had no effect.

Patriot range, the longest have seen mentioned in the anti-aircraft mission is 100 miles/160 km (whereas the TBM range maybe only 10-15 km?) and as the A-50 was 210 km behind the front line don't think Patriot a possibility, why the long range S-200, have seen max 300 km quoted, makes Ukranian use of S-200 claim seem more probable.
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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NickC wrote: 25 Feb 2024, 11:48 Reported the A-50 released numerous flares but as the S-200 uses semi-active RF seeker would have had no effect.
There are videos circulating on X, showing the A-50 dumping strings of flares. One missile appears to track some of the flares and detonate, with a second detonating a few seconds later, clearly hitting the A-50, which then appears to break up into at least 2 sections.

Not sure what that says about the missile/ seeker etc, but one did appear to track the flares. Unless of course the A-50 was dumping chaff or some other form of radar decoy as well (which would not be visible in the dark, of course) - does anyone know if that is standard for Russian aircraft?
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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X (Twitter) post claiming Ukraine Patriot launchers taken out by an Russian Iskander, if true a major success for the Russians in ability to target the launchers.

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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There have been rumours that Ukraine has had to push launchers closer to the front, to compensate for lack of other ammunition. Launchers are relatively easy to replace - it's the radar and command facilities that would be a real blow - takes the whole battery out (though they are said to have two sets per battery)
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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The L3Harris Vampire system with its stabilised multi-sensor sight and advanced image processing firing the 70mm APKWS (over 50,000 delivered) with the BAE Inc laser-guided kit achieving success in Ukraine, think it might be the cheapest CIWS system yet for shooting down drones, several orders of magnitude cheaper than the Aster missiles HMS Diamond currently using in the Red Sea to shoot down similar if not the same Iranian drones, makes you question why RN did not develop the navy Starstreak system or progress fitting ships with the LMM on its DS30Bs.

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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The above is way off topic there is a separate thread for Red Sea conflict...

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Deleted the last few off-topic posts. This is not the place to discuss the Red Sea crisis.

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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bobp wrote: 25 Mar 2024, 08:43 The above is way off topic there is a separate thread for Red Sea conflict...
NickC wrote: 23 Mar 2024, 11:18 The L3Harris Vampire system with its stabilised multi-sensor sight and advanced image processing firing the 70mm APKWS (over 50,000 delivered) with the BAE Inc laser-guided kit achieving success in Ukraine, think it might be the cheapest CIWS system yet for shooting down drones, several orders of magnitude cheaper than the Aster missiles HMS Diamond currently using in the Red Sea to shoot down similar if not the same Iranian drones, makes you question why RN did not develop the navy Starstreak system or progress fitting ships with the LMM on its DS30Bs.

bobp wrote: 25 Mar 2024, 08:43 The above is way off topic there is a separate thread for Red Sea conflict...
Would disagree as it specifically covers the use of Vampire in Ukraine/Black Sea and has consequences that relate to both Type 45 and Red Sea threads, subject matter covers multi-threads and as a result would argue its a problem where to post, otherwise threads become a straight jacket in the forum.
The Armchair Soldier wrote: 25 Mar 2024, 11:39
Deleted the last few off-topic posts. This is not the place to discuss the Red Sea crisis.
As administrator decision quite within your authority, but would it not be better if you consider posts off-topic to make a note and move them to the appropiate Red Sea thread ?

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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NickC wrote: 23 Mar 2024, 11:18 The L3Harris Vampire system with its stabilised multi-sensor sight and advanced image processing firing the 70mm APKWS (over 50,000 delivered) with the BAE Inc laser-guided kit achieving success in Ukraine, think it might be the cheapest CIWS system yet for shooting down drones, several orders of magnitude cheaper than the Aster missiles HMS Diamond currently using in the Red Sea to shoot down similar if not the same Iranian drones, makes you question why RN did not develop the navy Starstreak system or progress fitting ships with the LMM on its DS30Bs.



Feyette LIFEX item ...

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Artillery - Shoot and Scoot and the end of Towed Howitzers.

"January the shell ratio was nearly one-to-six in favor of Russia. Artillery has been the greatest killer in the war in Ukraine, accounting for more than 70% of casualties." Nexter briefing on their truck-mounted Caesar 155mm/52 calibre howitzers, Ukraine has received 55, 36 supplied by France and another 19 donated by Denmark. Ukraine has lost less than 10%, whilst losses for some other self-propelled or towed systems in Ukraine’s war with Russia amount to nearly 30%. Caesar is the lightest 155mmm self-propelled gun at 18 metric tons, and can fire six shells within a minute before packing up and moving away in less than a minute to avoid counter-battery fire, drones and loitering munitions which have become a real threat 40 kilometers (25 miles) from the front line. Nexter aiming to ramp up Ceasar production to 12 a month.

November French Army awarded Nexter €350 million contract for 109 Cesar Mk II. "The updated cannon will have an armored cabin to protect against mines and small-caliber arms, based on the feedback from French deployments in Afghanistan and Africa’s Sahel region. The Caesar MkII will get a new 460 HP engine more than double as powerful as the previous 215 HP one, a new six-wheel chassis from military-vehicle maker Arquus, and updated fire control software. The howitzer will keep its 155mm cannon, with a range of more than 40 kilometers, and will remain air-transportable, according to France’s armaments directorate."

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... s-survive/

PS March 28th “We have witnessed the end of the effectiveness of towed artillery.” These are the words that General James Rainey, head of the US Army Futures Command, spoke at the Global Force symposium of the Association of the US Army. "

https://meta-defense.fr/en/2024/03/28/t ... n-us-army/
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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It appears the Russians are having considerable success in using EW to spoof the GPS guidance systems of US weapon systems, claimed the Raytheon 155mm Excalibur shell hit rate has dropped from 70% to 6% and the Pentagon’s saying the Boeing Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb just didn’t work. Also reported GMLRS rockets being sent off course as are the GPS guided JDAMs. Presume the EW will have the same effect on the UK supplied Raytheon Paveway IV bombs?

Reported that the USAF urgently planning to supply JDAM-ERs with add on seekers to home in on the Russian active EW GPS jammers.

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2024 ... ys/396141/

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Nobody said the Russians wouldn't adapt.

The Paveway IV is also laser guided, so you have other guidance options for it but I don't know how I would feel sitting there above the battlefield as laser designation guided the bomb to its target. :think:

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Jdam wrote: 07 May 2024, 15:29 Nobody said the Russians wouldn't adapt.

The Paveway IV is also laser guided, so you have other guidance options for it but I don't know how I would feel sitting there above the battlefield as laser designation guided the bomb to its target. :think:
Paveway IV has inertial navigation as well as GPS. Laser guidance can used in either mode.

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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NickC wrote: 07 May 2024, 10:50 It appears the Russians are having considerable success in using EW to spoof the GPS guidance systems of US weapon systems, claimed the Raytheon 155mm Excalibur shell hit rate has dropped from 70% to 6% and the Pentagon’s saying the Boeing Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb just didn’t work. Also reported GMLRS rockets being sent off course as are the GPS guided JDAMs. Presume the EW will have the same effect on the UK supplied Raytheon Paveway IV bombs?

Reported that the USAF urgently planning to supply JDAM-ERs with add on seekers to home in on the Russian active EW GPS jammers.

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2024 ... ys/396141/
That is why you always need to have options utilizing "dumb" munitions. There is no spoofing gravity. Frankly, I always thought that NATO is heavily lacking in artillery department.

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Domobran7 wrote: 11 May 2024, 11:29
NickC wrote: 07 May 2024, 10:50 It appears the Russians are having considerable success in using EW to spoof the GPS guidance systems of US weapon systems, claimed the Raytheon 155mm Excalibur shell hit rate has dropped from 70% to 6% and the Pentagon’s saying the Boeing Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb just didn’t work. Also reported GMLRS rockets being sent off course as are the GPS guided JDAMs. Presume the EW will have the same effect on the UK supplied Raytheon Paveway IV bombs?

Reported that the USAF urgently planning to supply JDAM-ERs with add on seekers to home in on the Russian active EW GPS jammers.

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2024 ... ys/396141/
That is why you always need to have options utilizing "dumb" munitions. There is no spoofing gravity. Frankly, I always thought that NATO is heavily lacking in artillery department.
US Army Europe and Africa Commander Gen. Darryl Williams kicked off the annual Fires Symposium in Lawton, Okla. with, appropriately, a bit of a bombshell. “Traditional cannon-based mass fires,” he told the audience, “are still the best solution in an EW environment.”

https://breakingdefense.com/2024/05/tak ... ventional/
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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NickC wrote: 11 May 2024, 11:59
Domobran7 wrote: 11 May 2024, 11:29
NickC wrote: 07 May 2024, 10:50 It appears the Russians are having considerable success in using EW to spoof the GPS guidance systems of US weapon systems, claimed the Raytheon 155mm Excalibur shell hit rate has dropped from 70% to 6% and the Pentagon’s saying the Boeing Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb just didn’t work. Also reported GMLRS rockets being sent off course as are the GPS guided JDAMs. Presume the EW will have the same effect on the UK supplied Raytheon Paveway IV bombs?

Reported that the USAF urgently planning to supply JDAM-ERs with add on seekers to home in on the Russian active EW GPS jammers.

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2024 ... ys/396141/
That is why you always need to have options utilizing "dumb" munitions. There is no spoofing gravity. Frankly, I always thought that NATO is heavily lacking in artillery department.
US Army Europe and Africa Commander Gen. Darryl Williams kicked off the annual Fires Symposium in Lawton, Okla. with, appropriately, a bit of a bombshell. “Traditional cannon-based mass fires,” he told the audience, “are still the best solution in an EW environment.”

https://breakingdefense.com/2024/05/tak ... ventional/

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Domobran7 wrote: 11 May 2024, 11:29
NickC wrote: 07 May 2024, 10:50 It appears the Russians are having considerable success in using EW to spoof the GPS guidance systems of US weapon systems, claimed the Raytheon 155mm Excalibur shell hit rate has dropped from 70% to 6% and the Pentagon’s saying the Boeing Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb just didn’t work. Also reported GMLRS rockets being sent off course as are the GPS guided JDAMs. Presume the EW will have the same effect on the UK supplied Raytheon Paveway IV bombs?

Reported that the USAF urgently planning to supply JDAM-ERs with add on seekers to home in on the Russian active EW GPS jammers.

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2024 ... ys/396141/
That is why you always need to have options utilizing "dumb" munitions. There is no spoofing gravity. Frankly, I always thought that NATO is heavily lacking in artillery department.
Excalibur reverts to a 155mm shell without GPS guidance, its just not as accurate so you need to fire more and not worry about collateral damage
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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Very interesting when the Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb finally turned up it came and went without much fanfare. By the time Boeing and SAAB got it to Ukraine the Russians had deployed technology to reduce its effect.

Say's something about if you have an advantage to use it to its maximum effect straight away cause sooner or later the enemy will adapt.

I guess there is a little bit of complacency from the west, we have used GPS weapons a lot for 30 years, no reason to think your Russia's and China's wont develop methods counter to them.
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Re: The war in Ukraine

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tomuk wrote: 11 May 2024, 15:55
Excalibur reverts to a 155mm shell without GPS guidance, its just not as accurate so you need to fire more and not worry about collateral damage

The massive downside of using the Excalibur as a dumb shell is the $100,000 cost per shell, when shells were first supplied to Ukraine they initially hit targets with a 70% efficiency rate though within six weeks the Russians had adapted their EW and reduced its efficiency to only 6%, don't think even the US has the level of funding to support that profligacy and perhaps what driving the US General to make his comments “Traditional cannon-based mass fires,” he told the audience, “are still the best solution in an EW environment.”

https://www.businessinsider.com/cost-ke ... e%20report.
In particular, operating and support costs for the M982 Excalibur — a GPS-guided 155-mm artillery shell supplied to Ukraine — nearly doubled between 2011 and 2022 to roughly $100,000 per shell, according to a Government Accountability Office report

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Re: The war in Ukraine

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NickC wrote: 12 May 2024, 15:31
tomuk wrote: 11 May 2024, 15:55
Excalibur reverts to a 155mm shell without GPS guidance, its just not as accurate so you need to fire more and not worry about collateral damage

The massive downside of using the Excalibur as a dumb shell is the $100,000 cost per shell, when shells were first supplied to Ukraine they initially hit targets with a 70% efficiency rate though within six weeks the Russians had adapted their EW and reduced its efficiency to only 6%, don't think even the US has the level of funding to support that profligacy and perhaps what driving the US General to make his comments “Traditional cannon-based mass fires,” he told the audience, “are still the best solution in an EW environment.”

https://www.businessinsider.com/cost-ke ... e%20report.
In particular, operating and support costs for the M982 Excalibur — a GPS-guided 155-mm artillery shell supplied to Ukraine — nearly doubled between 2011 and 2022 to roughly $100,000 per shell, according to a Government Accountability Office report
Thanks but I know all that.

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