UK Defence Forum

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/15031 ... nson-aukus

Is it time for a clean break with the petulant French?

No ...

They are always going to play up Anglo-related stresses as it always plays well internally. This is made worse by the fact that they've got elections coming up where anti-British sentiment goes down pretty well with the public (the same way anti-EU sentiment does here).

UK and France have significant common goals when it comes to defence and security. To blow it all apart now over AUKUS or FC/ASW issues stemming from AUKUS, seems pretty stupid.

Defiance wrote:No ...

They are always going to play up Anglo-related stresses as it always plays well internally. This is made worse by the fact that they've got elections coming up where anti-British sentiment goes down pretty well with the public (the same way anti-EU sentiment does here).

UK and France have significant common goals when it comes to defence and security. To blow it all apart now over AUKUS or FC/ASW issues stemming from AUKUS, seems pretty stupid.

The French are doing a decent job of trying to blow it apart

dmereifield wrote:
The French are doing a decent job of trying to blow it apart

Clearly they aren't because they have the power to end the treaty if they wanted to ...

They're postponing FC/ASW as a bit of political payback for AUKUS - that is entirely expected. It is not grounds to dissolve the LHT over such a trivial issue, that is a ridiculous proposition.

Defiance wrote:UK and France have significant common goals when it comes to defence and security. To blow it all apart now over AUKUS or FC/ASW issues stemming from AUKUS, seems pretty stupid.

The reality is that the French pushed hard in the noughties to develop defence and security interdependence with the UK (& other European countries) and they have achieved exactly that (e.g. on complex weapons, Lancaster House nuclear arrangements, CH-47 support in Mali etc). Whatever the rights or wrongs of AUKUS, defence wise there are now few retaliatory measures they can take without also hurting themselves as well, perhaps disproportionately so.

Defiance wrote:

dmereifield wrote:
The French are doing a decent job of trying to blow it apart

Clearly they aren't because they have the power to end the treaty if they wanted to ...

They're postponing FC/ASW as a bit of political payback for AUKUS - that is entirely expected. It is not grounds to dissolve the LHT over such a trivial issue, that is a ridiculous proposition.

My wider point is that the statements, threats and actions of the French Government and French politicians in the last weeks/months are not conducive to good relations

dmereifield wrote:My wider point is that the statements, threats and actions of the French Government and French politicians in the last weeks/months are not conducive to good relations

You could apply that quote to every form of French government for the last few centuries. They point at us as being the baddies the exact same way we point at them for being the baddies.

When we shit-canned the joint UCAV (one of the flagship programs to emerge from the LHT) you didn't see the French whining that we may as well shut the whole endeavour down.

I doubt that FC/ASW was going to meet the planned IOC anyhow let alone FOC. Moving the official date back a bit is probably more realistic actually even if ti appears to be a political "Toys out of the Pram" display by the French. Th French need it as much as we do to maintain a European Weapon it these classes, otherwise we all buy American or Japanese.

Lord Jim wrote:I doubt that FC/ASW was going to meet the planned IOC anyhow let alone FOC. Moving the official date back a bit is probably more realistic actually even if ti appears to be a political "Toys out of the Pram" display by the French. Th French need it as much as we do to maintain a European Weapon it these classes, otherwise we all buy American or Japanese.

I'd be more inclined to say the French do need it, but were we to cancel co-operation then we're much more likely to buy OTS. The French would likely carry on and develop a national solution regardless of the cost for strategic reasons.

The French appear in self destruct mode

Otherwise the EU wil implode ?

Now why would they be doing this in a French presidential election year?!

Given how the nomination of Ben Wallace was vetoed by France as the next NATO candidate had to come from teh EU according to the French, shouldn't the Lancaster Houster Treaty be disbanded given the ongoing hostility from France ?