RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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new guy wrote: 04 Feb 2024, 11:34 Known RAF anti-houti Operation so far:
tyhoon sorties: 12
Voyager sorties: 6
External fuel pod sorties: 24
Meteor sorties: 12
ASRAAM sorties: 24
Paveway 4's despenced: 48.
What would appear is that for a fully loaded Typhon a 2,000 mile radius bombing mission requires one Voyager per two Typhons, presume Typhon FGR4 very short range reflecting its design origins as pure fighter.

Remember reading a few years ago that of the USN carrier F-18E/Fs missions 30% were acting as buddy tankers which led to very high numbers of a/c in maintenance as max weight and full power at take-off puts max stress on a/c.

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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I fully get it that time delays between a crisis starting and political decision making lead to planning compression at the operational level (realistically leading to 'enormous time pressure'). Also worth noting that the Houthi attacks on shipping started 19 Dec 23, and worth considering what lessons are to be drawn from this for the EU's planned Rapid Deployment Capability.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67614911

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68337027
US Central Command said its forces had carried out five strikes against three mobile anti-ship cruise missiles, one unmanned underwater vessel (UUV) and one unmanned surface vessel (USV) in Houthi-controlled areas of Yemen on Saturday after determining that they presented an imminent threat to US Navy ships and merchant vessels in the region.
It was the first time that US forces had identified a UUV, or submarine drone, being employed by the Houthis since the attacks began.
It was always just a matter of time…
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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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The EU have now launched Operation ASPIDES. Of note this is three months to the day since the RED SEA crisis started.

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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RAF Typhoons have conducted a 4th round of air strike in Yemen


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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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32,000 lbs of explosives so far.

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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Looks like we should jerry rig some A400m's as bombers soon.

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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Ian Hall wrote: 25 Feb 2024, 09:31
Couldn't they do that somewhere closer, like Cyprus or Souda?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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German frigate shot down drones in the red sea

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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But with German commentators reporting that this followed EU mistakenly, and and unsuccessfully, firing upon two US drones before engaging the Houthi targets. Not yet confirmed though.

https://augengeradeaus.net/2024/02/rote ... i-drohnen/

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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A lot of info in the War Zone write up on the Western Navies in the Red Sea vs the Houthi and raises numerous questions

It was confirmed the German Navy Type 124 Sachsen class frigate Hessen successfully shot down two drones, within 20 minutes of one another. Hessen intercepted the first drone using its 76mm deck gun while the second drone was shot down using the short range RIM-116 RAM. The two drones were supposedly "recognized by the radar system and had a different range… That's why two different weapons were used." The use of both these systems indicates that the UAVs came remarkably close to Hessen, its not the first time Houthi drones have come close to the ships as previously reported in one engagement by a Burke destroyer that had to resort to using the ship’s CIWS Mk15 Phalanx.

On the evening of February 26, FGS Hessen attempted to shoot down an unknown drone after efforts to clarify its nature with U.S. were unsuccessful and it fired at an American MQ-9 Reaper drone, said the IFF not switched on, two SM-2 interceptors were fired at the MQ-9 and reported by Spiegel that both missiles failed plus the variant of the SM-2's used by F124 class are no longer in production and so cannot rearm.

The Houthis have managed to shoot down two MQ-9s since the current crisis began. MQ-9s are highly active in the region for counter-terror, counter-piracy, and weapons interdiction efforts. DE&S has recently bought 16 Protector UAVs for the RAF, which are fitted with a suite of equipment that are claimed enables unparalleled surveillance and strike capability which in light of the third world Houthi ability to shoot down the MQ-9s appears to me a slightly dubious claim.

Hessen operating under the auspices of the recently formed EU Operation Aspides, (assuming driven by France) as there have been tensions in co-operating with the U.S. Operation Propriety Guardian which the RN ships operates with.

U.S. Navy has alone has fired around 100 SM missiles including the SM-6 at Houthi missiles and drones at $2 to 4 million a pop, no mention of firing the ESSMs which find puzzling, HMS Diamond, which has shot down multiple Houthi Iranian drones had to steam to Gibraltar to rearm with Aster's before heading back to the Red Sea.

https://www.twz.com/news-features/germa ... thi-drones

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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NickC wrote: 01 Mar 2024, 15:41 A lot of info in the War Zone write up on the Western Navies in the Red Sea vs the Houthi and raises numerous questions

It was confirmed the German Navy Type 124 Sachsen class frigate Hessen successfully shot down two drones, within 20 minutes of one another. Hessen intercepted the first drone using its 76mm deck gun while the second drone was shot down using the short range RIM-116 RAM. The two drones were supposedly "recognized by the radar system and had a different range… That's why two different weapons were used." The use of both these systems indicates that the UAVs came remarkably close to Hessen, its not the first time Houthi drones have come close to the ships as previously reported in one engagement by a Burke destroyer that had to resort to using the ship’s CIWS Mk15 Phalanx.

On the evening of February 26, FGS Hessen attempted to shoot down an unknown drone after efforts to clarify its nature with U.S. were unsuccessful and it fired at an American MQ-9 Reaper drone, said the IFF not switched on, two SM-2 interceptors were fired at the MQ-9 and reported by Spiegel that both missiles failed plus the variant of the SM-2's used by F124 class are no longer in production and so cannot rearm.

The Houthis have managed to shoot down two MQ-9s since the current crisis began. MQ-9s are highly active in the region for counter-terror, counter-piracy, and weapons interdiction efforts. DE&S has recently bought 16 Protector UAVs for the RAF, which are fitted with a suite of equipment that are claimed enables unparalleled surveillance and strike capability which in light of the third world Houthi ability to shoot down the MQ-9s appears to me a slightly dubious claim.

Hessen operating under the auspices of the recently formed EU Operation Aspides, (assuming driven by France) as there have been tensions in co-operating with the U.S. Operation Propriety Guardian which the RN ships operates with.

U.S. Navy has alone has fired around 100 SM missiles including the SM-6 at Houthi missiles and drones at $2 to 4 million a pop, no mention of firing the ESSMs which find puzzling, HMS Diamond, which has shot down multiple Houthi Iranian drones had to steam to Gibraltar to rearm with Aster's before heading back to the Red Sea.

https://www.twz.com/news-features/germa ... thi-drones
Right so in an article whose two main themes seem to me to be a firstly concern about lack of co-operation due to the French\EU not wanting to be under US command so setting up there own separate Aspides operation and secondly the failure of Hessen's SM2 missile to work and that the SM2s can't be replaced because German lines of supply are atrophied, your hot take is to question the choice of MOD purchase MQ9B Protectors?
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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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tomuk wrote: 02 Mar 2024, 00:34 Right so in an article whose two main themes seem to me to be a firstly concern about lack of co-operation due to the French\EU not wanting to be under US command so setting up there own separate Aspides operation and secondly the failure of Hessen's SM2 missile to work and that the SM2s can't be replaced because German lines of supply are atrophied, your hot take is to question the choice of MOD purchase MQ9B Protectors?

Would add to the above list
Surprisingly high percentage of two ships in Red Sea had to resort to their guns, USS Gravely and FGS Hessen, due presumably to operational problems with their AAW missile systems.

The cost of the missiles relative to the peanut cost of the drones, as said estimated US figure $100 million, RN figure unknown, estimate maybe 18 Aster 15s fired, have not seen cost of Aster 15, £2 to 3 million each? so total £40 million plus?

Why USN fired no ESSMs as thought would be appropiate missile for the situation.

The T45 Diamond had to leave the battle zone and steam approx. 5,000m to Gibraltar to rearm and back as presumably it had exhausted its Aster 15 missiles and none of the remaining five T45s was available to replace Diamond, also highlighted the limited number of missiles carried which a major concern since build and only now being partially addressed with the upgrade announced two years ago with the addition of 24 Sea Ceptors, which looks on the low side as standard practice is to fire two missiles per target so you soon run out in a target rich enviroment.
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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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NickC wrote: 02 Mar 2024, 12:29
tomuk wrote: 02 Mar 2024, 00:34 Right so in an article whose two main themes seem to me to be a firstly concern about lack of co-operation due to the French\EU not wanting to be under US command so setting up there own separate Aspides operation and secondly the failure of Hessen's SM2 missile to work and that the SM2s can't be replaced because German lines of supply are atrophied, your hot take is to question the choice of MOD purchase MQ9B Protectors?

Would add to the above list
Surprisingly high percentage of two ships in Red Sea had to resort to their guns, USS Gravely and FGS Hessen, due presumably to operational problems with their AAW missile systems.

The cost of the missiles relative to the peanut cost of the drones, as said estimated US figure $100 million, RN figure unknown, estimate maybe 18 Aster 15s fired, have not seen cost of Aster 15, £2 to 3 million each? so total £40 million plus?

Why USN fired no ESSMs as thought would be appropiate missile for the situation.

The T45 Diamond had to leave the battle zone and steam approx. 5,000m to Gibraltar to rearm and back as presumably it had exhausted its Aster 15 missiles and none of the remaining five T45s was available to replace Diamond, also highlighted the limited number of missiles carried which a major concern since build and only now being partially addressed with the upgrade announced two years ago with the addition of 24 Sea Ceptors, which looks on the low side as standard practice is to fire two missiles per target so you soon run out in a target rich enviroment.
Standard practice maybe to fire two SM2s but it isn't standard practice to fire Asters in salvos of two due to their superior active seeker. Also Diamonds took down one or more of the drones with it 30mm cannon. So I would question your suppositions.

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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Italian destroyer in the Red Sea has intercepted a drone with a 76mm cannon

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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Have we heard anything about the type 23's down there since taking over for HMS Diamond?

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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tomuk wrote: 02 Mar 2024, 20:49
NickC wrote: 02 Mar 2024, 12:29
tomuk wrote: 02 Mar 2024, 00:34 Right so in an article whose two main themes seem to me to be a firstly concern about lack of co-operation due to the French\EU not wanting to be under US command so setting up there own separate Aspides operation and secondly the failure of Hessen's SM2 missile to work and that the SM2s can't be replaced because German lines of supply are atrophied, your hot take is to question the choice of MOD purchase MQ9B Protectors?

Would add to the above list
Surprisingly high percentage of two ships in Red Sea had to resort to their guns, USS Gravely and FGS Hessen, due presumably to operational problems with their AAW missile systems.

The cost of the missiles relative to the peanut cost of the drones, as said estimated US figure $100 million, RN figure unknown, estimate maybe 18 Aster 15s fired, have not seen cost of Aster 15, £2 to 3 million each? so total £40 million plus?

Why USN fired no ESSMs as thought would be appropiate missile for the situation.

The T45 Diamond had to leave the battle zone and steam approx. 5,000m to Gibraltar to rearm and back as presumably it had exhausted its Aster 15 missiles and none of the remaining five T45s was available to replace Diamond, also highlighted the limited number of missiles carried which a major concern since build and only now being partially addressed with the upgrade announced two years ago with the addition of 24 Sea Ceptors, which looks on the low side as standard practice is to fire two missiles per target so you soon run out in a target rich enviroment.
Standard practice maybe to fire two SM2s but it isn't standard practice to fire Asters in salvos of two due to their superior active seeker. Also Diamonds took down one or more of the drones with it 30mm cannon. So I would question your suppositions.
Thanks for the info on Aster, re. Sea Ceptor think number of missiles fired per target may depend on the perceived threat level of the target?, BBC reported Dec 2017 on Sea Ceptor trials with T23 HMS Argyll and tested at the Hebrides Range against single aerial targets. This was followed by "more demanding tests" including a single target engaged by two missiles and a twin firing - two targets each engaged by a single missile at the same time.
QinetiQ reported the September 2017 trials featured seven sorties using the Leonardo Mirach aerial target within 2km of Argyll. The Mirach 100/5 is subsonic, spec. Mach 0.73, weight 330 kg , flight envelope from sea skimming 10 ft, with Sea State 3 increases to 66 ft with a max altitude 39,000 ft. Have seen no mention of Sea Ceptor tested against a supersonic aerial target as was Aster with the successful French Navy Horizon frigate Forbin in 2012 trial (and later with a T45 in Formidable Shield Exercise) against the Mach 2.5 USN GQM-163A Coyote sea skimming target drone designed to simulate the performance of advanced anti-ship missiles possessed by China and Russia, such as the P-800 Onyx, Kh-31 Krypton, YJ-12, and YJ-18. Testing is costly, the 2019 QinetiQ Rattler UAV supersonic aerial target is now available which expect less expensive than the $2.8 million Coyote.

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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A longer video of the HMS richmount engagement in the Red Sea



Not sure what was she was firing but didn’t all look like sea ceptor

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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The French engaged 4 with missile and 76mm cannon.

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https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... n-red-sea/

Wildcat and martlet your time has come.
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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... thi-drone/

Surface Drones now, I wonder how ambitious their targets will be. :think:

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Re: RED SEA - Houthi attacks

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French fremm frigate engaged 3 ballistic missiles in the red sea


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