UK Defence Forum

Lord Jim wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 22:07 Isn't the core FREMM still there. Yes, there have been major changes to the design but wasn't it designed so that the vessel could be radically altered whilst retaining its core. Yes, the USN's Constellation is a far greater alteration than the differences between the Italian and French FREMM. It is probably an example of GFE being provided on a drastic scale, but if it works and the USN get a class of ships it needs then the design has worked. The T-31 is another example. The current export customers have significantly changed the ships design, but the core remains the same. Hopefully we may do something with the T-26 core design when we are looking for future escorts. It should be big enough and has many of the capabilities already designed in the RN would like. Saying that though, the RN might do better to develop the T-31 hull in future as it is a proven adaptable design so should have a reduced risk. As for the FSS, it is a shame they were not ordered at the same time a the relevant Oilers. It may have been possible then for both classes to have a sense of commonality, sharing the basic hull design as well as engines, sensors and other electronics and so on.

wargame_insomniac wrote: ↑19 Nov 2022, 16:58

Lord Jim wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 22:07 Isn't the core FREMM still there. Yes, there have been major changes to the design but wasn't it designed so that the vessel could be radically altered whilst retaining its core. Yes, the USN's Constellation is a far greater alteration than the differences between the Italian and French FREMM. It is probably an example of GFE being provided on a drastic scale, but if it works and the USN get a class of ships it needs then the design has worked. The T-31 is another example. The current export customers have significantly changed the ships design, but the core remains the same. Hopefully we may do something with the T-26 core design when we are looking for future escorts. It should be big enough and has many of the capabilities already designed in the RN would like. Saying that though, the RN might do better to develop the T-31 hull in future as it is a proven adaptable design so should have a reduced risk. As for the FSS, it is a shame they were not ordered at the same time a the relevant Oilers. It may have been possible then for both classes to have a sense of commonality, sharing the basic hull design as well as engines, sensors and other electronics and so on.

Team Resolute, the preferred bidder for FSS, includes BMT who also designed the Tide Class tankers, and I beleive that they will share some common components.

Ron5 wrote: ↑19 Nov 2022, 13:19

SW1 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 15:17

Ron5 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 14:43
The Constellations are a lousy example of your argument. The US doesn't focus it's investment in a few industries and then buy foreign platforms to re-equip. They being built in the US by US workers.

No it isn’t. The US spends more money than is sensible on defence so it can do whatever it wants. No one else has such luxury even if they act like they do.

The constellation class is a gd example of exactly my argument of what to do, license build a design and integrate it with systems developed in your our country.

You've switched your argument mid stream. You first maintained the UK shouldn't build "each last bit" but buy the platform built elsewhere and refit with UK engines etc.

Now you are saying built every last bit in the UK but buy the design from somebody else. Still mad as a box of frogs but now a different box.

I'm done with this.

PS The US spends more money than is sensible on defence. ??? Oh really. Jeesh.

RichardIC wrote: ↑19 Nov 2022, 18:35

wargame_insomniac wrote: ↑19 Nov 2022, 16:58

Lord Jim wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 22:07 Isn't the core FREMM still there. Yes, there have been major changes to the design but wasn't it designed so that the vessel could be radically altered whilst retaining its core. Yes, the USN's Constellation is a far greater alteration than the differences between the Italian and French FREMM. It is probably an example of GFE being provided on a drastic scale, but if it works and the USN get a class of ships it needs then the design has worked. The T-31 is another example. The current export customers have significantly changed the ships design, but the core remains the same. Hopefully we may do something with the T-26 core design when we are looking for future escorts. It should be big enough and has many of the capabilities already designed in the RN would like. Saying that though, the RN might do better to develop the T-31 hull in future as it is a proven adaptable design so should have a reduced risk. As for the FSS, it is a shame they were not ordered at the same time a the relevant Oilers. It may have been possible then for both classes to have a sense of commonality, sharing the basic hull design as well as engines, sensors and other electronics and so on.

Team Resolute, the preferred bidder for FSS, includes BMT who also designed the Tide Class tankers, and I beleive that they will share some common components.

Ordered a decade apart, so hopefully not. But if you know better feel free to tell us.

RichardIC wrote: ↑24 Nov 2022, 16:37

leonard wrote: ↑18 Jan 2023, 14:47 And the contract for the future 3 FSS ships was just singed and we have the latest CGI of the ship from Navantia.

“Team Resolute will develop a modern, robust and thriving shipbuilding industry in Belfast that will support shipbuilding in the future. By collaborating with Navantia, one of the world's leading builders, we want to bring their knowledge and support and ensure that this is a long-term collaboration going into the future," said Ben Wallace"

“Team Resolute” will contribute to the National Shipbuilding Strategy of the United Kingdom by promoting the modernization of facilities and the training of workers. The consortium will invest £77m in revitalizing UK shipbuilding infrastructure and a further £21m in knowledge and technology transfer from Navantia UK, creating one of the UK's most advanced shipyards, critically important for future exports and national shipbuilding"

BB85 wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 11:58 Plenty of young people looking for alternatives to university debt and soulless office work. H&W will have no problem bringing in contractors from Scotland when they need them. I'm expecting H&W to use this cash injection to build up the facilities for offshore projects as well as ship building meaning they are not entirely dependent on ship orders from the MOD for survival.

shark bait wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 15:58 I thought it was going to show the aviation facilities! Does anyone know how big the hangar will be?

Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 09:50

shark bait wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 15:58 I thought it was going to show the aviation facilities! Does anyone know how big the hangar will be?

The FSS has hanger space for two Merlin’s with maintenance clearances plus additional space for large cargo carrying UAVs.

Ron5 wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 14:24

BB85 wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 11:58 Plenty of young people looking for alternatives to university debt and soulless office work. H&W will have no problem bringing in contractors from Scotland when they need them. I'm expecting H&W to use this cash injection to build up the facilities for offshore projects as well as ship building meaning they are not entirely dependent on ship orders from the MOD for survival.

A cash injection of 77 million? That's too small to even call peanuts. WTH can they buy at that price? A big shed?

All this will do is create a competitor for Rosyth so they can both race each other into bankruptcy.

serge750 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 00:08 Would love to know what % of projects come in on time & on budget.....

SD67 wrote: ↑24 Jan 2023, 13:55

Ron5 wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 14:24

BB85 wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 11:58 Plenty of young people looking for alternatives to university debt and soulless office work. H&W will have no problem bringing in contractors from Scotland when they need them. I'm expecting H&W to use this cash injection to build up the facilities for offshore projects as well as ship building meaning they are not entirely dependent on ship orders from the MOD for survival.

A cash injection of 77 million? That's too small to even call peanuts. WTH can they buy at that price? A big shed?

All this will do is create a competitor for Rosyth so they can both race each other into bankruptcy.

Babcock spent similar on their upgrades to Rosyth to prepare for T31 including new shed, plate line and facilities to float the boats out

I understand that H&W intend to use their existing facilities in Methill for some of The fabrication work.