Operation Shader - Iraq, Syria

[GibMariner]

David Willett's is Defence Editor of The Sun, so take it with a pinch of salt.

That was one of the rumours about the presence of HMS Ambush at/around Gibraltar over the last few months so might not be so far fetched.

[shark bait]

Libya move seems like a good one. We are not going to solve any problems by taking in a few thousand migrants. It needs action at the source.

I would actually go one step further and unofficially anex a part of Libya and use that huge forign aid budget to build them schools and hospitals and a legitimate government over there instead of them jumping in dingys and trying to cross the med.

[R686]

Libya move seems like a good one. We are not going to solve any problems by taking in a few thousand migrants. It needs action at the source.

I would actually go one step further and unofficially anex a part of Libya and use that huge forign aid budget to build them schools and hospitals and a legitimate government over there instead of them jumping in dingys and trying to cross the med.

Agree with the sentiment, there's a reason for mass migration, nip it in the bud but its not that simple of starting another state look at what Israel has gone through since its inception by the UN in 48.

I am not religious but I believe all the trouble in the world is down to religion, but religious freedom is important no need to add fuel to the fire. its complex and hard no easy solution so that might be the next step, but will the UN fund it?

[shark bait]

I agree, I wasn't for a moment suggesting that was an easy fix, it's just what we're doing at the moment isn't the best thing.

I think your right about religion, its people using religion as an excuse to teach hatred and extremism and I think we have to create an environment where there is an alternative to that.

We have clearly failed in Iraq and libia and need to try a more holistic approach.

[The Armchair Soldier]

David Cameron just announced that an RAF Reaper strike killed a British member of ISIL in Syria.



Nice to see that turd flushed.

[The Armchair Soldier]

Reaper takes out ISIL boat:

[The Armchair Soldier]

HMS Duncan conducts RAS with USNS Arctic & USS Theodore Roosevelt in the Gulf:


USN Photo

[The Armchair Soldier]

Just some stats in case anybody needs them:

It is estimated that, by 30 August 2015, 330 ISIL fighters and 0 civilians had been killed by UK airstrikes since September 2014.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... 9-09/9798/

[The Armchair Soldier]

A new site has been set up by the Government on Operation Shader:
https://social.shorthand.com/DefenceHQ/ ... /op-shader

[shark bait]

Fancy site with fancy words, and pictures but I'm not sure the operations success matches the Gucci site. Fallon states it as being our top priority, but our effort doesn't seem like the response of one of the most powerfull nations on the globe.

From my perspective not a lot seems to have been achieved in a year, 330 terrorists dead, a few pickups blown up, a bigger humanitarian problem, and between us all we've controlled it so badly the Russian's feel they can step in and do a better job.

I am not suggesting our armed forces at fault, but there is a lack of political will from all of the west to actually fix this. Maybe the flood of migrants might make people realise it needs a stronger effort to fix this.

[Tiny Toy]

Not many of the migrants are from the IS theatre - not even many of the Syrian migrants. In fact they're quite a small proportion of total migrant numbers. Solving the IS situation, if it's even possible while there is no authority capable or willing to step up to the task of government, would hardly make a dent in the migrant crisis.

[shark bait]

Not many of the migrants are from the IS theatre - not even many of the Syrian migrants. In fact they're quite a small proportion of total migrant numbers. Solving the IS situation, if it's even possible while there is no authority capable or willing to step up to the task of government, would hardly make a dent in the migrant crisis.

True the ones on the move to Europe aren't all Syrian, in fact looking at the news coverage the majority seem to be opportunistic healthy young males making an illegal break for Europe, not genuine migrants.

Regardless there are still 4 million Syrians in refugee camps and 5 million more on the move, that is a crisis that is still getting worse despite our intervention.

It really is a problem all throughout the region, that ISIS have been the most successful capitalising on. They are perhaps the most volatile and dangerous threat that needs to be tackled first, them their are a whole hoast of other problems that we are no where near to sorting. There is not the will from any side to collaborate and fix them. Doing a bob geldof and adopting a family is not going to fix it, we need better plans.

If the collective effort of the British armed forces can only take out 330 mildly orginazed goat farmers and their pickups ,its going to be a long time solving a very small part of the problem.

[RetroSicotte]

If the collective effort of the British armed forces can only take out 330 mildly orginazed goat farmers and their pickups ,its going to be a long time solving a very small part of the problem.

Bingo.

Of course, I think what we really need is a bit more contextual objectives. The Government is very happy to put out headlines stating we will "Smash ISIS" but the real objective of the British (and many Coalition airpowers) is not, I think, to go after the bodycount. If they were a little more honest, we might see more of the following:

What the Western Allies can provide to the theatre is coordination and intelligence to those on the ground fighting the battles more than anything. Britain in particular has an exceptionally good ability to waste vehicles on a strategic scale (Look through the individual strike listings of Libya, there are some downright horrific results when they really let Brimstone off the chain and permitted volley launches on convoys), and I'd be more interested to hear what the UK's strikes have done to devastate ISIS' vehicle fleet and curb their mobility in the regions.

ISIS was on the precipice of having active tank battalions and AFV convoys in organised numbers until the West stepped in after all. Since then, we've heard nothing about them and ISIS has had to dramatically change their tactics.

The West cannot destroy ISIS from the air, but they can shatter the competitive edge that they have other a disorganised and fractured country, and target pinpoint advantages to let the Iraqis fight for their own with much better odds.

[The Armchair Soldier]

The BBC on board a Sentinel over Iraq:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34373292

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

If the collective effort of the British armed forces can only take out 330 mildly orginazed goat farmers and their pickups ,its going to be a long time solving a very small part of the problem.

Bingo.

Of course, I think what we really need is a bit more contextual objectives. The Government is very happy to put out headlines stating we will "Smash ISIS" but the real objective of the British (and many Coalition airpowers) is not, I think, to go after the bodycount. If they were a little more honest, we might see more of the following:

What the Western Allies can provide to the theatre is coordination and intelligence to those on the ground fighting the battles more than anything. Britain in particular has an exceptionally good ability to waste vehicles on a strategic scale (Look through the individual strike listings of Libya, there are some downright horrific results when they really let Brimstone off the chain and permitted volley launches on convoys), and I'd be more interested to hear what the UK's strikes have done to devastate ISIS' vehicle fleet and curb their mobility in the regions.

ISIS was on the precipice of having active tank battalions and AFV convoys in organised numbers until the West stepped in after all. Since then, we've heard nothing about them and ISIS has had to dramatically change their tactics.

The West cannot destroy ISIS from the air, but they can shatter the competitive edge that they have other a disorganised and fractured country, and target pinpoint advantages to let the Iraqis fight for their own with much better odds.

Precisely. It is wrong to think of either our role, or the broader West's, as being anything other than force enablers in this and on that front we are doing an exceptionally good job at the moment it would seem - both as a coalition and the UK individually (flying 30% of the entire coalition’s ISR missions is nothing to be sniffed at!). That is why the references to 'body counts' and material damage inflicted irks me in the context of anything other than simply keeping tabs on mission progress.

So far, wider media rhetoric has consistently framed such facts and figures solely in the context of some imagined mission to destroy ISIS from the air which is not what we are attempting to achieve at all. I put that down to simple ignorance but where they continue to peddle it all the same more and more people are given the wrong impression about what we hope to achieve.

In reality, when people bemoan the apparent lack of material damage inflicted by RAF assets on ISIS they are actually missing the whole point of Shader.

Also, this is a very different operational environment from Ellamy to boot - certainly where battle space dimensions and target density are concerned.

[The Armchair Soldier]

Forces TV is doing a mini-documentary on Operation Shader, going aboard many of the aircraft involved during ops. The first installment is on Tornado:

http://www.forces.tv/54281720

[arfah]

............

[The Armchair Soldier]

Uh-oh...
RAF Ready to Shoot Down Russian Aircraft Over Syria

RAF Tornados bombing Isis targets in Iraq are to be armed with air-to-air missiles to protect them from attack by Russian aircraft — as a senior cabinet minister warned that Britain was prepared to shoot down Vladimir Putin’s jets.

Read More: http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/new ... 618135.ece

Edit: The MOD has dismissed the story as bollocks (in case there was any doubt).

[GibMariner]

Posting here in case this has any effect on the operation.

Works at RAF Akrotiri

Belfast construction and engineering firm Lagan Construction International has won three new global military airport contracts worth a combined £40m.
The company, part of Lagan Construction Group, will carry out work in Gibraltar and Cyprus for Defence Infrastructure Organisation - with the work valued at a combined £31m.

In Cyprus, Lagan Construction International will work in a joint venture with Iacovou Brothers on RAF Akrotiri base in Cyprus, with work to be finished by January 2017.

It completed an earlier airport project at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus in 1998.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/busin ... 98485.html

[The Armchair Soldier]

Forces TV is doing a mini-documentary on Operation Shader, going aboard many of the aircraft involved during ops. The first installment is on Tornado:

http://www.forces.tv/54281720

The full length version has been released:
http://forces.tv/64638280

[The Armchair Soldier]

Corbyn Signals Labour Support For Syria Action

Jeremy Corbyn opens the door to Labour support for military action in Syria but it is not clear if he personally backs the stance.

Jeremy Corbyn has indicated Labour could support some form of military action in Syria - even without an UN resolution.

The Labour leader, the former chairman of the Stop the War Coalition, has consistently opposed the idea of sending Armed Forces into the country, however, it appears he is now happy for the party to back intervention.

Following a meeting with the shadow cabinet on Tuesday, the shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn has laid out Labour's new approach - with Mr Corbyn's blessing.

It suggests Labour would be willing to back military intervention, even if there was no UN support were Russia to block a security council resolution. The party voted at its conference last month not to support strikes in Syria without a resolution.

However, it is unclear whether Mr Corbyn himself will vote in support of military strikes in the country. He may choose to disagree with the party line.

Read More: http://news.sky.com/story/1569237/corby ... ria-action

[SKB]

Turkey has shot down an "unidentified drone" near the Syrian border.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34551155

[shark bait]

and that's hot state on state war starts!
At least turkey have the nuts to do it!

[jonas]

and that's hot state on state war starts!
At least turkey have the nuts to do it!

Let's remember one thing , Turkey is a member of NATO so that if it was Russian and they decided to cut up rough, NATO would be obliged to come to their aid. So it wouldn't be a state on state war, it would be larger than that.
This middle east mess could so easily get quickly out of hand, it has been reported that Iran is supplying more troops to fight alongside Syrian government troops. Both of which will be supported by Russian air power. Libya and Iraq are both basket cases,Israel is having a tough time, and it wouldn't take much to push them over the edge.

Turkey itself is ready to implode, what with Syria on their doorstep, the Kurds and ISIL both carrying out their own agenda, Turkey would only be too happy if the US got more involved. Would we stay well out of it, what do you think !!

[The Armchair Soldier]

I have no idea how reliable this site is, but it appears to suggest that we have been surpassed by both France and the Netherlands for total number of strikes in Iraq: http://airwars.org/