New Zealand Defence Force

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
TSharpe28
Member
Posts: 80
Joined: 25 Feb 2022, 04:22
United Kingdom

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by TSharpe28 »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 19 Mar 2022, 14:05
TSharpe28 wrote: 19 Mar 2022, 11:50
I wonder what proportion of GDP that New Zealand spends on defence?

I had nt realised how few ships the NZ Navy has - 2 frigates, 3 support ships and 4 patrol vessels. I know they are taking delivery of 4*P8 Poseidon MPA.

I wonder whether they could be interested in T26 or even T31 Frigates as eventual replacement for their two Anzac class frigates when they get retired in 2030's.
If they chose Type 26, I wonder if they want the MK41 launchers.
These users liked the author TSharpe28 for the post:
wargame_insomniac

NighthawkNZ
Member
Posts: 186
Joined: 04 Jul 2015, 08:42
New Zealand

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

R686 wrote: 19 Mar 2022, 14:44 If memory serves correctly it’s just a tick over 1.5% not sure if that remains now the Southern Ocean patrol ship has been cancelled
I wouldn't say cancelled... I would say more on hold...

R686
Senior Member
Posts: 2322
Joined: 28 May 2015, 02:43
Australia

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by R686 »

NighthawkNZ wrote: 20 Mar 2022, 07:04
R686 wrote: 19 Mar 2022, 14:44 If memory serves correctly it’s just a tick over 1.5% not sure if that remains now the Southern Ocean patrol ship has been cancelled
I wouldn't say cancelled... I would say more on hold...
https://www.gets.govt.nz//MD/ExternalTe ... d=24293212

Defence seeks to confirm investment priorities and to reprioritise resources.

Got to pay for that cut in fuel excise somehow :roll:
These users liked the author R686 for the post:
donald_of_tokyo

R686
Senior Member
Posts: 2322
Joined: 28 May 2015, 02:43
Australia

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by R686 »

I wonder if this will get the attention at the beehive and the imputes to get the politicians heads out of the sand and start taking defence seriously

https://www.9news.com.au/world/china-ne ... 7ef9bd9a34

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7314
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
United Kingdom

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by Lord Jim »

China's idea of stabilisation or Humanitarian aid differ greatly from what we, Australia or New Zealand would take as acceptable. This is another string to China's growing list of countries that will accept Chinese Military or Para Military forces as well as installations on their territory. The other more well known method is to use loans and repayments to gain such access when countries who have taken out the former can no longer afford the latter.

wargame_insomniac
Senior Member
Posts: 1135
Joined: 20 Nov 2021, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by wargame_insomniac »

R686 wrote: 24 Mar 2022, 14:00 I wonder if this will get the attention at the beehive and the imputes to get the politicians heads out of the sand and start taking defence seriously

https://www.9news.com.au/world/china-ne ... 7ef9bd9a34
Lets hope that combined diplomatic efforts of Australia, New Zealand, PNG are enough to persuade Solomon Islands not to ratify this draft deal.

But sooner or later one of the Pacific Islands will be poor/desparate enough to accept Chinese money for a similar deal. Their economies are likely ravaged by the lack of tourism and fishing in th last two years due to Covid.

NighthawkNZ
Member
Posts: 186
Joined: 04 Jul 2015, 08:42
New Zealand

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 25 Mar 2022, 00:37
R686 wrote: 24 Mar 2022, 14:00 I wonder if this will get the attention at the beehive and the imputes to get the politicians heads out of the sand and start taking defence seriously

https://www.9news.com.au/world/china-ne ... 7ef9bd9a34
Lets hope that combined diplomatic efforts of Australia, New Zealand, PNG are enough to persuade Solomon Islands not to ratify this draft deal.

But sooner or later one of the Pacific Islands will be poor/desparate enough to accept Chinese money for a similar deal. Their economies are likely ravaged by the lack of tourism and fishing in th last two years due to Covid.
Even combined Australia and New Zealand don't have deep enough pockets to match China to persuade them otherwise. Bougenville is similar ... Samoa, Fiji, all the same although Samoa to scrap China-backed port project under new leader. One of them already has a deep sea harbour built by China for "Cruise Liners" but as far as I know hardly any go there and is not making money and they may default on the repayments... and then bingo Chinese have a naval base there as payment...

wargame_insomniac
Senior Member
Posts: 1135
Joined: 20 Nov 2021, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by wargame_insomniac »

I hope they might match China diplomatically rather than financially, as you say the Chinese have deeper pockets than most as they have invested heavily in this type of deal around Asia, Africa and even South America.

I just hope the likes of the Solomon Islands remember how much they get from Australia, NZ etc in other areas.

Yes unfortunately that loan default and takeover does seem to be a strategy that Chinese go for. 😒

R686
Senior Member
Posts: 2322
Joined: 28 May 2015, 02:43
Australia

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by R686 »

NighthawkNZ wrote: 26 Mar 2022, 06:31
wargame_insomniac wrote: 25 Mar 2022, 00:37
R686 wrote: 24 Mar 2022, 14:00 I wonder if this will get the attention at the beehive and the imputes to get the politicians heads out of the sand and start taking defence seriously

https://www.9news.com.au/world/china-ne ... 7ef9bd9a34
Lets hope that combined diplomatic efforts of Australia, New Zealand, PNG are enough to persuade Solomon Islands not to ratify this draft deal.

But sooner or later one of the Pacific Islands will be poor/desparate enough to accept Chinese money for a similar deal. Their economies are likely ravaged by the lack of tourism and fishing in th last two years due to Covid.
Even combined Australia and New Zealand don't have deep enough pockets to match China to persuade them otherwise. Bougenville is similar ... Samoa, Fiji, all the same although Samoa to scrap China-backed port project under new leader. One of them already has a deep sea harbour built by China for "Cruise Liners" but as far as I know hardly any go there and is not making money and they may default on the repayments... and then bingo Chinese have a naval base there as payment...

If that were to happen I am hopeful that AU/NZ will bail them out to stop that from happening

But then again we do not want to start a precedent that they think AU/NZ will bail them out all the time in those situations
These users liked the author R686 for the post:
wargame_insomniac

NighthawkNZ
Member
Posts: 186
Joined: 04 Jul 2015, 08:42
New Zealand

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 26 Mar 2022, 14:40 I hope they might match China diplomatically rather than financially, as you say the Chinese have deeper pockets than most as they have invested heavily in this type of deal around Asia, Africa and even South America.

I just hope the likes of the Solomon Islands remember how much they get from Australia, NZ etc in other areas.

Yes unfortunately that loan default and takeover does seem to be a strategy that Chinese go for. 😒
It has been kept secret from all other Pacific forum members as well as their own people... who I might add will no like that... that is what the last riots were over when the switched from Taiwan to Beijing

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2783
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
United Kingdom

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by Caribbean »

It is a sad fact that many small island nations fall under the control of small cliques that then seek to manipulate their "nation" to line their own pockets. The individuals pushing this will suddenly become extremely wealthy
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Scimitar54
Senior Member
Posts: 1701
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
United Kingdom

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by Scimitar54 »

And enemies of “the people”! :mrgreen:

User avatar
swoop
Member
Posts: 251
Joined: 03 May 2015, 21:25
Pitcairn Island

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by swoop »

Caribbean wrote: 27 Mar 2022, 12:53It is a sad fact that many small island nations fall under the control of small cliques that then seek to manipulate their "nation" to line their own pockets. The individuals pushing this will suddenly become extremely wealthy
Unfortunately china does not "sway a nation" but simply bribes their leader.
My Niuean workmate tells the tale of another island who has had their PM bribed into signing away all the territorial rights (fishing, etc) for a bit of coin. He has since departed the island into exile somewhere. I'll ask her about it again and report back with better details.

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2783
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
United Kingdom

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by Caribbean »

swoop wrote: 29 Mar 2022, 02:11
Caribbean wrote: 27 Mar 2022, 12:53It is a sad fact that many small island nations fall under the control of small cliques that then seek to manipulate their "nation" to line their own pockets. The individuals pushing this will suddenly become extremely wealthy
Unfortunately china does not "sway a nation" but simply bribes their leader.
My Niuean workmate tells the tale of another island who has had their PM bribed into signing away all the territorial rights (fishing, etc) for a bit of coin. He has since departed the island into exile somewhere. I'll ask her about it again and report back with better details.
The same was in danger of happening in Cayman - there was a proposal for a Chinese-financed cruise port. Fortunately that got closed down fairly sharpish by the UK, but certain "connected" individuals, who have, shall we say, a poor grasp on morality (despite being Church-going tub-thumpers) were commonly acknowledged to be behind those pushing the scheme (and who would end up making a lot of money).

Interestingly, there is also a certain extremely wealthy former US citizen, now with Caymanian Status, who also seems to be trying to buy up the island, so the Chinese have some competition.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

NighthawkNZ
Member
Posts: 186
Joined: 04 Jul 2015, 08:42
New Zealand

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

New Zealand dispatches 50 troops to Europe to assist with logistics of moving weapons into Ukraine
The Government is dispatching 50 New Zealand Defence Force troops to Europe to assist with the logistics of moving weapons and aid into Ukraine.

New Zealand will also donate an additional $13 million to support the United Kingdom in procuring equipment for the Ukrainian military as it fights off Russia's invasion that began in February.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, speaking after Cabinet met on Monday, said the Government will deploy a Defence Force C-130 Hercules aircraft with the 50 personnel to Europe on Wednesday for two months.

A further eight Defence Force logistic specialists will be sent to Germany to support the international donation coordination centre with the flow of aid and supplies to Ukraine.

The C-130 will join a chain of military aircraft from partner nations, travelling throughout Europe carrying equipment and supplies to key distribution centres. But at no point will New Zealand troops enter Ukraine.

The $13.1 million will go towards military and legal and human rights support, including $7.5 million for weapons and ammunition procurement by the UK, $4.1 million to support commercial satellite access for Ukraine forces, $1 million to the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, and $500,000 for the International Court of Justice and International Criminal Court.

"Our support is to assist the Ukraine Army to repel a brutal Russian invasion because peace in the region of Europe is essential for global stability," Ardern said on Monday.

"Such a blatant attack on a country's sovereignty is a threat to all of us and that's why we too have a role to play," she said of Russia's invasion.

"The global response has seen an unprecedented amount of military support pledged for Ukraine, and more help to transport and distribute it is urgently needed, and so we will do our bit to help."

It follows the deployment of nine New Zealand Defence Force analysts to the UK and Belgium to assist Ukraine. The Defence Force is also helping European partners by gathering intelligence about the war during their nighttime hours.

The Defence Force also provided 1066 body armour plates to the Ukrainian forces, along with 473 helmets and 571 camouflage vests.

Last month New Zealand donated $5 million to the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) to support Ukraine with non-lethal military aid. It would be primarily directed to the NATO Trust Fund which provides fuel, military rations, communications and military first aid kits.

Ukraine is not a member of NATO, meaning there was no legal obligation for NATO countries to defend it after Russia invaded in February. Russia has long sought assurances that its former Soviet neighbour would not join the military alliance.

While New New Zealand is not a member of NATO, it is one of a few countries referred to as "partners across the globe" that contribute to NATO-led defence operations.

The Government also passed the Russia Sanctions Act, giving it power to freeze the assets of Russian President Vladimir Putin and 12 members of his Security Council, as well as prohibit their vessels and aircraft. The law also bans certain people and companies from travelling to New Zealand or moving their money and assets to escape sanctions imposed by other countries.

The Government ramped up its response last week by slapping Russian goods with a 35 percent import tax over alleged war "atrocities" committed in the Ukrainian town of Bucha, where a mass grave was discovered a month after the area was taken over by Russian troops.

The Government also banned the export of industrial products such as ICT equipment and engines.

"Russia will be held to account," Ardern said.

Alongside 41 other countries, New Zealand announced its support for the International Criminal Court's investigation into war crimes committed by Russia, and provided funding to the investigation.

Russia responded by blacklisting New Zealand. Ardern, along with all MPs, spy chiefs and Defence Force leaders, were banned from entering Russia in retaliation for sanctions. The same applied to Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison and 228 other influential Australians.
http://nighthawk.nz/index.php/6045-new- ... to-ukraine
These users liked the author NighthawkNZ for the post (total 5):
SW1wargame_insomniacKiwiMuzzdonald_of_tokyoTheLoneRanger

NighthawkNZ
Member
Posts: 186
Joined: 04 Jul 2015, 08:42
New Zealand

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

NZ C-130Js to Get Specialist Equipment, Advanced Sensors
Image
The five Lockheed Martin C-130J-30s Super Hercules to be built for New Zealand will have advanced ISTAR and communications systems (photo : Lockheed Martin Aeronautics)

The five Lockheed Martin C-130J-30s Super Hercules to be procured by New Zealand will have specialist equipment and sensors.

Janes has learned that the aircraft will be fitted with L3 WESCAM MX-20 electro-optical/infrared (EO/IR) cameras and a Honeywell JetWave Ka-band wide bandwidth, high-speed satellite communications (satcom) system.

The MX-20 system is designed for high-altitude intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance (ISTAR) operations. It has been deployed aboard long-range maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) and GA-ASI MQ-9B SkyGuardian unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

Able to provide more than x400 magnification in the EO sensor and more than x75 magnification in the IR sensor, the MX-20 also uses Enhanced Local Area Processing (ELAP) to improve feature recognition.
Janes previously reported that the modular design of the system supports up to seven sensor payloads simultaneously. This comprises “a daylight CCD [charged-coupled device] camera with zoom lens, a colour [or monochrome] daylight camera with four-step spotter lens, a night camera with four-step spotter lens, a thermal imager with high magnification four-step zoom, a laser rangefinder, and two choices of laser illuminator/pointer”.

The satcom system supports up to 50 Mbps of speed via the fuselage-mounted antenna. The tail-mounted antenna is capable of speeds up to 30 Mbps.

“In addition to the above [two] specific systems, the NZ [New Zealand] variant will include the ability for video and images to be captured while the aircraft is in use,” the New Zealand Ministry of Defence (MoD) told Janes.

This includes “the ability to live-stream footage back to civilian agencies during humanitarian and disaster relief and search-and-rescue (SAR) missions”, the MoD added.
The C-130j-30 Super Hercules are getting all the mod cons...
These users liked the author NighthawkNZ for the post (total 2):
donald_of_tokyoKiwiMuzz

R686
Senior Member
Posts: 2322
Joined: 28 May 2015, 02:43
Australia

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by R686 »

NighthawkNZ wrote: 30 Apr 2022, 18:47
NZ C-130Js to Get Specialist Equipment, Advanced Sensors
Image
The five Lockheed Martin C-130J-30s Super Hercules to be built for New Zealand will have advanced ISTAR and communications systems (photo : Lockheed Martin Aeronautics)

The five Lockheed Martin C-130J-30s Super Hercules to be procured by New Zealand will have specialist equipment and sensors.

Janes has learned that the aircraft will be fitted with L3 WESCAM MX-20 electro-optical/infrared (EO/IR) cameras and a Honeywell JetWave Ka-band wide bandwidth, high-speed satellite communications (satcom) system.

The MX-20 system is designed for high-altitude intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance (ISTAR) operations. It has been deployed aboard long-range maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) and GA-ASI MQ-9B SkyGuardian unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

Able to provide more than x400 magnification in the EO sensor and more than x75 magnification in the IR sensor, the MX-20 also uses Enhanced Local Area Processing (ELAP) to improve feature recognition.
Janes previously reported that the modular design of the system supports up to seven sensor payloads simultaneously. This comprises “a daylight CCD [charged-coupled device] camera with zoom lens, a colour [or monochrome] daylight camera with four-step spotter lens, a night camera with four-step spotter lens, a thermal imager with high magnification four-step zoom, a laser rangefinder, and two choices of laser illuminator/pointer”.

The satcom system supports up to 50 Mbps of speed via the fuselage-mounted antenna. The tail-mounted antenna is capable of speeds up to 30 Mbps.

“In addition to the above [two] specific systems, the NZ [New Zealand] variant will include the ability for video and images to be captured while the aircraft is in use,” the New Zealand Ministry of Defence (MoD) told Janes.

This includes “the ability to live-stream footage back to civilian agencies during humanitarian and disaster relief and search-and-rescue (SAR) missions”, the MoD added.
The C-130j-30 Super Hercules are getting all the mod cons...


Janes must have been haveing a slow news day or something, it’s not new news, it formed part of the FMS deal.

https://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/file ... _19-69.pdf

NighthawkNZ
Member
Posts: 186
Joined: 04 Jul 2015, 08:42
New Zealand

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

Deployment of a 30 strong NZDF training team to the UK until July. To train the Ukrainian soldiers how to use the L119 105mm light gun. Apparently we were requested to help with this as there are very few countries that use this equipment. Interestingly the UK will be airlifting the troops, ammunition and not the New Zealand Defence Force.

New Zealand sending 30 Defence Force personnel to Europe to train Ukraine's Armed Forces
These users liked the author NighthawkNZ for the post:
donald_of_tokyo

donald_of_tokyo
Senior Member
Posts: 5545
Joined: 06 May 2015, 13:18
Japan

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

From RNZN facebook.

All but the frigate Te Mana, is at rest in Devonport Naval base, NZ.

Interesting we can see two Lake (corrected from Island, thanks NighthawkNZ-san) class patrol vessels with blue sheet (in addition to two without) in the middle. I guess they are taking off some RNZN-specific radios/com-sat antenna and else?

Image

NighthawkNZ
Member
Posts: 186
Joined: 04 Jul 2015, 08:42
New Zealand

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

Those would be the two of the Lake Class IPV's HMNZS Rotoiti and Pukaki that have been sold to Ireland and are being bought back from retirement and getting sea ready for the Irish Naval Service.

http://nighthawk.nz/index.php/news/defe ... al-service
These users liked the author NighthawkNZ for the post:
donald_of_tokyo

Timmymagic
Donator
Posts: 3224
Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
United Kingdom

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by Timmymagic »

NighthawkNZ wrote: 23 May 2022, 06:17 Deployment of a 30 strong NZDF training team to the UK until July. To train the Ukrainian soldiers how to use the L119 105mm light gun. Apparently we were requested to help with this as there are very few countries that use this equipment. Interestingly the UK will be airlifting the troops, ammunition and not the New Zealand Defence Force.
Think the extra hands will come in useful. But I suspect the main reason is that the New Zealanders were bringing 40 gun sights with them...the Ukrainian's will likely be getting L118 from the UK stocks rather than the L119 that the New Zealanders are familiar with. The gun sights will be to replace the UK guns LINAPS which will no doubt be removed before sending to Ukraine. NZ guns aren't fitted with it, instead they've got the old style sights. Wouldn't be shocked if when the NZer's return home they're not taking 40 LINAPS with them in exchange which will be quite a capability increase for them...

https://electronics.leonardo.com/en/products/linaps

NighthawkNZ
Member
Posts: 186
Joined: 04 Jul 2015, 08:42
New Zealand

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

Timmymagic wrote: 27 May 2022, 23:57
NighthawkNZ wrote: 23 May 2022, 06:17 Deployment of a 30 strong NZDF training team to the UK until July. To train the Ukrainian soldiers how to use the L119 105mm light gun. Apparently we were requested to help with this as there are very few countries that use this equipment. Interestingly the UK will be airlifting the troops, ammunition and not the New Zealand Defence Force.
Think the extra hands will come in useful. But I suspect the main reason is that the New Zealanders were bringing 40 gun sights with them...the Ukrainian's will likely be getting L118 from the UK stocks rather than the L119 that the New Zealanders are familiar with. The gun sights will be to replace the UK guns LINAPS which will no doubt be removed before sending to Ukraine. NZ guns aren't fitted with it, instead they've got the old style sights.
https://electronics.leonardo.com/en/products/linaps
The NZDF are not supplying any of the guns... We simply don't have enough in stock to do so... (article never said they were supplying the guns but only to train but yes supplying the old optical sites that the NZDF no longer use as well as training ammo )
Timmymagic wrote: 27 May 2022, 23:57 Wouldn't be shocked if when the NZer's return home they're not taking 40 LINAPS with them in exchange which will be quite a capability increase for them...
As the kiwi guns sites have been upgraded and were fitted (around 8) years ago which is why they are giving the old optical sites as they have been in storage for years and not needed.

So I doubt that

Image

Image

http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/201 ... ology.html

You see a glimpse in this video using it on 105 in 2018



donald_of_tokyo
Senior Member
Posts: 5545
Joined: 06 May 2015, 13:18
Japan

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Te Mana coming back from Frigate Systems Upgrade program. Looks beautiful.

In this article, they say $700M, but official web still quoting $638.9 million. Which is right?

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... g-upgrade/

https://www.defence.govt.nz/what-we-do/ ... grade-fsu/

Now, Te Mana has just left San Diego, on 6/10, 2022.

These users liked the author donald_of_tokyo for the post:
wargame_insomniac

NighthawkNZ
Member
Posts: 186
Joined: 04 Jul 2015, 08:42
New Zealand

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by NighthawkNZ »

These users liked the author NighthawkNZ for the post:
donald_of_tokyo

donald_of_tokyo
Senior Member
Posts: 5545
Joined: 06 May 2015, 13:18
Japan

Re: New Zealand Defence Force

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Great movie of Te Mana!

On 0:31, you can see the top-side view of the ship. The 20-cell CAMM VLS orientation is clearly seen.

Make me feel, if will small extension out board, there should have been 24 missiles. The number of LMS-box will be the same, the software systems will be (almost) the same. Just a small cut and extension of VLS-module by, say, 1 m or less.

RNZN frigates historically relied on helicopter launched ASM to counter enemy ships. From Marvelick missile on SH-2G to Penguin mkII on SH-2G(I). With CAMM, added with anti-surface capability, HMNZS Te Mana and Te Kaha will have an instantaneous anti-ship missile capability added, flying in Mach 3+, although with very light warhead. Looks better...

These users liked the author donald_of_tokyo for the post:
Tempest414

Post Reply