Royal Marines

News and discussion threads concerning defence personnel and their units.
bobp
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by bobp »

Awesome watching that video. Hope they get the Guinness record.

Little J
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by Little J »

Rediculous attitude from Guinness, if the record had stood for the last 100 years would they have expected the Marines to dress ww1 pattern trousers? You don't see other similar records being held up because of the clothing they wear.

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SKB
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by SKB »


(Gravity Industries) 18 Jan 2018
A Great flight over the Royal Marines assault course at Lympstone. The home of the Royal Marines Training Centre.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... acles.html

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

We were discussing ship deployments in the Arctic/ High North, and it is worthwhile noting that on land, too, the ambition is climbing from a single Cdo towards what the effort could be in other climates and terrains:
"The Government confirms that Royal Marines Cold Weather Training in 2019 is returning to recent norms in order to prepare for the largescale NATO exercise, COLD RESPONSE 2020. Between January and March 2019, 805 ranks will deploy to Norway to conduct Exercise AQUILA 19, which includes 100 Reservists. As in previous years the Royal Marines will deliver training to 220 US Marine Corps personnel, bringing the total number of personnel conducting training with 3 Commando Brigade in 2019 to 1,025. Exercise COLD RESPONSE 2020 will see 3 Commando Brigade build back to Lead Commando Group scale of Mountain and Cold Weather Warfare capability, increasing the numbers of UK personnel conducting training to over 1,000.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Poiuytrewq
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by Poiuytrewq »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Exercise COLD RESPONSE 2020 will see 3 Commando Brigade build back to Lead Commando Group scale of Mountain and Cold Weather Warfare capability, increasing the numbers of UK personnel conducting training to over 1,000.
A recognition that this is still a priority and cuts to training in this area since 2010 have been proved, as predicted, to be counterproductive and financially nonsensical?

Poiuytrewq
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Particularly interesting that the UK's urban training facilities are now falling behind the U.S., France, Germany and Israel.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... f-british/

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Poiuytrewq wrote:urban training facilities are now falling behind the U.S., France
We are sharing with those two. Which brings to mind why we are not sharing with the Canadians, in Canada, for unit level manoeuvre warfare exercises
- save on "maintaining the OpFor" on location ;)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by Lord Jim »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:We were discussing ship deployments in the Arctic/ High North, and it is worthwhile noting that on land, too, the ambition is climbing from a single Cdo towards what the effort could be in other climates and terrains:
"The Government confirms that Royal Marines Cold Weather Training in 2019 is returning to recent norms in order to prepare for the largescale NATO exercise, COLD RESPONSE 2020. Between January and March 2019, 805 ranks will deploy to Norway to conduct Exercise AQUILA 19, which includes 100 Reservists. As in previous years the Royal Marines will deliver training to 220 US Marine Corps personnel, bringing the total number of personnel conducting training with 3 Commando Brigade in 2019 to 1,025. Exercise COLD RESPONSE 2020 will see 3 Commando Brigade build back to Lead Commando Group scale of Mountain and Cold Weather Warfare capability, increasing the numbers of UK personnel conducting training to over 1,000.
When you say "Lead Commando Group" I assume you are referring to the Force built around a single Commando plus the necessary supporting units forming a light Infantry battlegroup as such. This plan does seem to have at least some of our assets moving in the right direction and I am pretty sure a shopping list of moderate size will result once the exercise is completed, for specialised kit to replace items that are past there sell by date or simply lacking in the first place. There is nothing better for developing procurement demands that are defensible than going out into the field for real.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lord Jim wrote:When you say "Lead Commando Group" I assume you are referring to the Force built around a single Commando plus the necessary supporting units forming a light Infantry battlegroup as such.
Further on that topic and bringing in also the amphibious shipping aspects and future plans (in near term PoW modifications and in the 30's LPD replacements):
Poiuytrewq wrote:The out of service dates for Albion and Bulwark is 2033 and 2034 respectively.
They only cost £450 mln (uncorrected for inflation) which is a point often overlooked because the "expensive to operate" overruns that fact in discussions.

Taking the information Save the Royal Navy had in 2016 as a fact "The QE carriers have been designed from the outset with fairly generous accommodation for up to 1,600 people. With her very lean complement of 733 there is a lot of space left for aircrew and an embarked military force (EMF) of least 250 which can live aboard for long periods in relative comfort. It is interesting that as the disposal of HMS Ocean gets closer, government is now saying up to 900 troops could be carried in extremis. We can assume that the modified HMS PoW will have space for about two Marine companies (500 personnel) to live aboard in tolerable comfort for an extended period."

Forgetting about "overload" figures, the active Albion/ Bulwark adds 300 combat troops, so together with PoW we can now count up to a full Cdo, but without attached support units.

"Space"for them can be made by the Bay that is not somewhere else, doing something else. An RM company with its vehicles can be landed from a Bay (but probably would need another LCU to be "borrowed" from the LPD.

This sort of inventory becomes of interest in 2020 when a full Lead Cdo Grp is due to exercise in Norway [COLD RESPONSE]. PoW will be busy with the F-35 trials leading to ISD, so what is likely to happen is that two Bays will be scheduled for Cold Warrior and HMS QE will only carry one company - and the LPD will carry the joint HQ staff, for which it is also kitted out.

- coming back to the second opening quote: should the LPD replacements be built as a cross between Bays and the current LPD? More LCU capacity (bigger welldock=> bigger ship), but otherwise more simple in their function?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

jedibeeftrix
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by jedibeeftrix »

what is the required sustainment rate over the beach to maintain a fighting formation of ~1500 marines?

what does this require now in terms of docks/lcu/lcvp/helicopters/steel-beach at present?
what will it require in future presuming a doubling of the distance offshore but caiman90 style capabilities?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Difficult question; let's calculate backwards from what we know

A force twice that size, with its (std issue) vehicles - mobility has been emphasised since and the ex-stand-off companies now come with more vehicles - and 30 days of supplies would take 11.000 LIM
- the bootnecks themselves take none as they can stand on the sides and in-between :)

So assume 6.000 LIM. But that is just on decks that afford easy access to what ever is the off-loading point & method. Some of the back up supplies might be palletised and stacked into other spaces, though I doubt that purpose-designed amph. shipping* has many such
- the discharge rate itself is a big question
- the speed (and capacity as a function of distance) of connectors is easier to calculate

====
* here we could enlarge the discussion into what the third (the one the option is for) SSS should look like, relative to its two earlier sisters, but let's try to work out first what can be done with assets in the water (err, helicopters included) and fill "the gap" then
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Poiuytrewq
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Cracking image from 2018
image.jpg

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SKB
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Re: Royal Marines

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Poiuytrewq wrote:Cracking image from 2018
image.jpg
It's not a stretcher, but a bundle of skis coming out of the door.
- and the huddle is about " how the hell do you put these things on?"
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by Lord Jim »

Again watching Forces TV, there was a news article regarding 40 Commando receiving the Peace Sword award for its fast response to the natural disaster in the British Virgin Islands in 2017. The contingent from 40 Commando were deployed so fast they arrived without small arms or other personal kit. To rectify this they broke into a local Police armoury to arm themselves and salvaged radios from wrecked yachts etc to set up a comms network. Fantastic effort but I hope the Treasury doesn't decide this is a model for future deployments and a way to save money. :clap: :)

Qwerty
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by Qwerty »

Lord Jim wrote:Again watching Forces TV, there was a news article regarding 40 Commando receiving the Peace Sword award for its fast response to the natural disaster in the British Virgin Islands in 2017. The contingent from 40 Commando were deployed so fast they arrived without small arms or other personal kit. To rectify this they broke into a local Police armoury to arm themselves and salvaged radios from wrecked yachts etc to set up a comms network. Fantastic effort but I hope the Treasury doesn't decide this is a model for future deployments and a way to save money. :clap: :)
Give it forty years and they’ll be facing a trial for looting, pillaging and firearms offences.

Samuel18
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by Samuel18 »

Is the SFSG a good unit to join from the Royal Marines or is it a career dead end?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Thin Pinstriped Line has picked up an interesting snippet from the continuous forces satisfaction survey, newest issue:
"Of particular interest is the situation with the Royal Marines who seem to be experiencing low self-morale (just 34% of RM rated their self-morale as high) coupled with a wider sense of low job satisfaction (the Royal Marines had just 44% job satisfaction, the lowest of the Services). There has also been a steep drop from 48-36% in the number of Royal Marines who feel valued by their service. Paradoxically, the Royal Marines score the most highly on the ‘engagement index’ which was the series of questions about pride in the service and willingness to recommend the job. "
- an example of what Parliamentary debate can inflict? Regardless of the final outcome

However, the conclusion drawn by the blogger is equally interesting (is it true as well?):

"At the same time though, the ‘cult of the Green lid’ remains strong, and its members are clearly extremely proud to be part of something unique. It will be interesting to see how the job satisfaction changes over time as the older hands move on, and the Corps memory readjusts to being one focused around delivery of specialist roles again, and not acting as a light infantry brigade in Afghanistan. "

Going away from one Corps (the survey is across the forces), the Whole Force concept seems to be making headway and gaining acceptance:

"particularly encouraging is the growing sense of awareness and respect for the skills and experience of both the Reserves and the Civil Service. 71% of respondents :thumbup: rated the Reserves as professional this year, and 78% rated the contribution of MOD civil servants as valuable. "
- who would ever join the Reserves (except as a gentle landing into the civvy world, after an active service career) if the attitudes of the Regulars were to persist ad infinitum. Not saying from last year, but from the decades past. So the trend is good.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

seaspear
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by seaspear »

I approached this post with some misgivings ,but my father as a Royal Marine in ww2 was trained as a driver for the landing boats he had even been involved in the training of U.S troops but thats another story ,as a driver he was armed with a Webley not as he told me for self defence but to shoot troops who refused to disembark , this never happened fortunately and we can only hope that those sort of orders are never given again.

Scimitar54
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by Scimitar54 »

I would rather (with humility) hope that those orders never NEED to be given again. I can however, see a parallel situation where a similar precaution may be thought to be necessary.

Caribbean
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by Caribbean »

I know it's the Express, but they occasionally get something right

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11411 ... -the-world

"THE Royal Marines will be transformed into a Special Forces unit working alongside the Special Boat Service in conflicts across the globe.
Military chiefs want the commandos to become "less like the Army" and evolve into a sophisticated tech-savvy task group to counter Russian-style hybrid warfare, which includes cyber warfare, at sea. First Sea Lord, Admiral Sir Philip Jones, has already given the green light to plans to transform the regiment into a niche fighting force able to support the overstretched Special Forces, which include the SBS, Special Air Service (SAS) and Special Forces Reconnaissance Group (SFRG). Last night 120 men attached to M Company, 42 Commando, deployed in the Persian Gulf and armed with new C7 assault rifles, were placed on "high readiness" after attacks on two international merchant vessels, said to have been carried out by Iran."
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

SW1
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by SW1 »

Caribbean wrote:I know it's the Express, but they occasionally get something right

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11411 ... -the-world

"THE Royal Marines will be transformed into a Special Forces unit working alongside the Special Boat Service in conflicts across the globe.
Military chiefs want the commandos to become "less like the Army" and evolve into a sophisticated tech-savvy task group to counter Russian-style hybrid warfare, which includes cyber warfare, at sea. First Sea Lord, Admiral Sir Philip Jones, has already given the green light to plans to transform the regiment into a niche fighting force able to support the overstretched Special Forces, which include the SBS, Special Air Service (SAS) and Special Forces Reconnaissance Group (SFRG). Last night 120 men attached to M Company, 42 Commando, deployed in the Persian Gulf and armed with new C7 assault rifles, were placed on "high readiness" after attacks on two international merchant vessels, said to have been carried out by Iran."
Caribbean interesting I for one hope it is the direction it’s headed.

RetroSicotte
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by RetroSicotte »

Sounds more like trying to put a spin on cutting more heavy kit and moving away from being able to do conventional ops than anything else to me.

It's like whenever they say "more agile" what they really mean is "less well armed due to cuts".


Lord Jim
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Re: Royal Marines

Post by Lord Jim »

So is the LMM replacing or complimenting Starstreak?

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