UK Defence Forum

Ron5 wrote: ↑16 May 2023, 13:25

SW1 wrote: ↑15 May 2023, 16:53 As an example you can integrate an aar refuelling probe on a nimrod for war use in a matter of weeks

Didn't that cause the loss of an aircraft and crew?

24 years later....

But...the RAF had never gone back and certified the war expedient work, or corrected numerous issues that had happened over the intervening years. The crash of XV230 in Kandahar was definitely a case of it was going to happen sooner or later.

Going way off topic

MIght be photoshop...but I think we can take this as clear confirmation that SU-24 is the launch platform...

Timmymagic wrote: ↑24 May 2023, 14:03 MIght be photoshop...but I think we can take this as clear confirmation that SU-24 is the launch platform...

Appears too small, I'm going with Photoshop....

I don't think the Ukrainians have time to be pissing about with 10ft flypasts these days, especially with one of their precious Storm Shadow modified Fencers....

mrclark303 wrote: ↑25 May 2023, 09:32 I don't think the Ukrainians have time to be pissing about with 10ft flypasts these days

From what I've seen on Twitter, 10 feet appears to be quite standard operating height at the moment!

As others have pointed out, integrating storm shadow on the SU24 in a matter of months does make a mockery out of the decision not to integrate storm shadow onto F35.

I suspect the biggest delay is updating the software to be able to fly the aircraft with 1 cruise missile under each wing and get it certified.

BB85 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2023, 08:48 As others have pointed out, integrating storm shadow on the SU24 in a matter of months does make a mockery out of the decision not to integrate storm shadow onto F35.

I suspect the biggest delay is updating the software to be able to fly the aircraft with 1 cruise missile under each wing and get it certified.

I don't think it does really. The Storm Shadow integrated to SU-24 are the non-MLU'd ones that are almost end of life. MLU'd Storm Shadow that have gone through the Spear 4 programme have data links and retargeting. Which definitely does need full integration...

We'd also not have them by now anyway.....they wouldn't arrive until 2027/28 with the Block IV work if we'd left them on the integration work list....and thats a mere couple of years before FCASW arrives..

Just a reminder that, with the exception of AIM-9X and Asraam on the outer wing pylons, no powered weapons whatsoever are integrated or qualified on F-35 for external carriage...That won't change until Block IV arrives...

We don't seem to be stingy with our Storm Shadow commitment to Ukraine and Russia cant seem to stop them.

Now for the UK needs do we wait for future cruse or do we need to order some more Storm Shadows in the short term, I has always had my concerns with the in service date of 2028 date for the FCASW.

We seem to be dolling out Storm Shadows at a rate that is roughly sufficient to allow Ukraine to carry out a strike with three or four missiles every 48 hrs or so. That is more than I had expected and is doing some serious damage. Here's yesterday's strike on one (actually two as the adjacent railway bridge was also hit) of the bridges linking Crimea to Kherson:

Jdam wrote: ↑23 Jun 2023, 14:46 We don't seem to be stingy with our Storm Shadow commitment to Ukraine and Russia cant seem to stop them.

Now for the UK needs do we wait for future cruse or do we need to order some more Storm Shadows in the short term, I has always had my concerns with the in service date of 2028 date for the FCASW.

We'll have c400-500 Storm Shadow in stockpile that will have had the MLU treatment...

After Ukraine have fired off the other 400, then however many France eventually send, then the German KEPD-350...and some US JASSM....it might be that there are few targets left that are worthy of one....

Can't imagine the Russian's would have much stomach for any other scrapping after that lot....

I'd rather any funds went to FCASW to be honest...

National News UK article suggests that RAF maybe planning to buy the Israeli Rampage missile to replace Storm Shadows sent to Ukraine

https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/u ... o-ukraine/

Storm Shadow in action.

NickC wrote: ↑04 Jul 2023, 14:06 National News UK article suggests that RAF maybe planning to buy the Israeli Rampage missile to replace Storm Shadows sent to Ukraine

https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/u ... o-ukraine/

So that's two interim solutions for FC/ASW then! Bonkers.

RunningStrong wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023, 09:16

NickC wrote: ↑04 Jul 2023, 14:06 National News UK article suggests that RAF maybe planning to buy the Israeli Rampage missile to replace Storm Shadows sent to Ukraine

https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/u ... o-ukraine/

So that's two interim solutions for FC/ASW then! Bonkers.

It was one, unverified, report from an Israeli news source that has not been seen anywhere else...

I don't think there is any truth in it whatsoever.

Bear in mind that the Storm Shadow sent to Ukraine are all non-MLU'd missiles so will have been discarded anyway in the very near future.

Timmymagic wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023, 10:38
Bear in mind that the Storm Shadow sent to Ukraine are all non-MLU'd missiles so will have been discarded anyway in the very near future.

Given how many have been fired off in Ukraine it shows how many didn't have the mid life upgrades

I take MBDA is busy with other weapons right now?

RunningStrong wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023, 09:16

NickC wrote: ↑04 Jul 2023, 14:06 National News UK article suggests that RAF maybe planning to buy the Israeli Rampage missile to replace Storm Shadows sent to Ukraine

https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/u ... o-ukraine/

So that's two interim solutions for FC/ASW then! Bonkers.

It's an old article and I think the MOD slapped the idea down very quickly

Was going to say before someone pointed out old article,does that mean Ukraine get all 900 storms in stock,them they have already had and the remaining stock lol,Seem's not then

Jdam wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023, 12:00 Given how many have been fired off in Ukraine it shows how many didn't have the mid life upgrades

I take MBDA is busy with other weapons right now?

The SPEAR 4 MLU is still underway. Only around half of the stockpile were planned to get the MLU.

MBDA are busy finishing that off. Plus other users Storm Shadow/SCALP are also goin through the MLU. I suspect as many of their trained personnel are possible are working on the Asraam/CAMM line at present with the large orders they have for that.

I don't follow missiles. Thinking of supplies to Ukraine, has Storm Shadow/Scalp production finished?

Spitfire9 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2023, 20:07 I don't follow missiles. Thinking of supplies to Ukraine, has Storm Shadow/Scalp production finished?

not been in production for a long time.

A Reuters report.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/uk ... 024-01-24/

UK offers cruise-missile swap to Germany to aid Ukraine -Handelsblatt

Reuters
January 24, 20248:00 PM GMTUpdated 16 hours ago

I speculated on something like this way upthread. Germany donating to Ukraine "indirectly"

Spitfire9 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2023, 20:07 I don't follow missiles. Thinking of supplies to Ukraine, has Storm Shadow/Scalp production finished?

France still has a production line for SCALP-EG in operation at the MBDA facilities in Bourges, its been used for export orders with Rafale. Not massive numbers, but according to Francis Tusa they've been running as fast as they can recently...who for is another matter...

UK has also produced some Storm Shadow in recent years, again for export orders so limited numbers, it can re-open if necessary. However, standing the line up and getting components ordered from sub-contractors takes time...the expertise is there however as the Storm Shadow MLU is underway for the UK and other customers, which is essentially, a re-manufacturing of the missile.

This is strictly from the companies point of view.

If there is enough money anything can be done, but I wonder if MBDA has the floor space and the staff to start Storm Shadow production up again in conjunction with other orders? MBDA may be hesitant take people off CAAM and brimstone right now as those look to be big money makers for them, to move them onto a limited run on a missile that will be replace in 2028 and hurt current orders, this might not make a lot of sense for them.

I wonder if you could start it up again and then set it up in a way that you could switch it over to future cruise when the time happens? Might be a way of pleasing both sides but that depend on FC missile appearing 2028

One thing is for sure our orders of Storm Shadow was not enough for a shooting war.

This goes to the crux of the industrial part of defence that has been ignored for decades.

That of production of expendables is vital if you are to have “sovereignty”.

We should take maybe a lesson from the US LRIP type procurement and buy even if not strictly needed a minimum number of said expendables each year after the main contract is finished. Add to stocks fire off older ones more ect.

But that doesn’t look good on a spreadsheet can cost a not insignificant sum and doesn’t get much traction if the photo ops are all geared to the latest cutting edge shinny new things. It does however make it significantly easier to expand production and use or supply
Inventory in conflict.