UK Defence & Aerospace Industry - General News & Discussion

[ArmChairCivvy]

This is what Fallon's direct report (Philip Dunne) said in Washington in the summer:

"It is notable that over the past few years, the US and UK defense industries have become increasingly intertwined. Your biggest defense primes … are big players in our market and vice versa," he said in his speech. "What's curious to me, as the head of our procurement ministry… is the trade often seems to go largely in one direction. Put simply, we buy a lot more from you than you buy from us."

That doesn't just mean buying each other's gear or jointly building industrial concerns, Dunne said,it also plays into co-development of technologies.

The co-development of technologies goes back to the already dated Defence Industrial Policy which approximated the UK's (alone) fielded technology to be only 2 years ahead of e.g. China's and the gap closing quickly.

[Fallon and Dunne quotes, both delivered in Washington, sourced from the archives of Defencenews.com, if anyone wants to read more]

[ArmChairCivvy]

Looking back, LM was praised for the number of jobs their ops over here have created. Were these comments, taken together, a shot over Boeing's bow that you will have to do better to get further deals coming your way?
- what's the biggest deal in the pipeline, after the ones already confirmed? Apache fleet regeneration?
- just shows how technology has moved on. When SeaKings were manufactured over here, it also meant that they could be supported through life, no matter what.
- when the original manufacturer for Apaches decided to suspend support by year x, ours became obsolescent at the stroke of a pen, despite the past doubling of their unit price by stuffing them with "local content"

[Defiance]

Don't need US ownership to make that happen. More political than industrial

Speaking of which, Fallon has just said in Washington (hot on the heels of the P8 deal and confirmed intention for the F35s -if the price can be put right ) that if they want the UK to continue buying more and more of the kit from US then US Primes will need to include more UK suppliers in their supply chain.
- a UK sub providing on-going support after the initial purchase woud have pretty similar Bal of Pmnts benefits (exc. for repatriating the profits element and for the loss of sovereignty in the future buys if only components and support are sourced from the UK)

It's getting more into give-and-take than a one way street in certain areas. Although it only counts if you get in before the detailed planning works, otherwise you're buggering up the production stream for everybody. Funny relationship between BAE and LM at the mintute (with respect to F35), partners in production but competitors for sustainment.

Good example is Turkey, good options for workshare/sustainment if talks come off well.

[SKB]

UK may nationalise Rolls Royce's nuclear submarine business - FT
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/41a4756a-a1a2 ... z3uFWuxwJe
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-rolls- ... W720151213

[seaspear]

could be a good time to aquire it if the share value has gone down

[ArmChairCivvy]

That
"Officials at Prime Minister David Cameron's office are concerned that Rolls Royce's management has no substantial experience of defending itself in the event of a hostile takeover bid, the FT reported, citing people familiar with the matter."
is likely to be "greetings" from Washington as
- PWR3 is a new system based on a US design but using UK reactor technology
- there are significant cross-overs between the civil and defence nuclear sectors, and
- there will be significant Chinese involvement in the sector in the UK, going forward.

There is also the cost-over-whole-life angle. as evidenced by
- the fact that at present, the UK has no repository for high-level or
intermediate-level waste; government policy is for deep
geological disposal c. 2030 or earlier
- current practice is afloat storage of defuelled and
decommissioned vessels (currently 17) – this capacity will be
exhausted by 2020.
- the £10 bn contingency recently announced may not relate to the design and building of the Successors at all, but rather to addressing the nuclear boats (past and present) from this angle?

[ArmChairCivvy]

It is not as bad as it sounds, though. 30 mln nautical miles have been steamed under nuclear power since HMS Dreadnought was launched. If proper accounting (costing) practice has been followed, the contingency would relate to the miles to be generated by the A, V and S(?) boats over the next 35 years, too.
- so may be 30+30 in all
- divide 10 bn by 60 mln for the so far unaccounted for cost?

[arfah]

.....................

[arfah]

..................

[shark bait]

Is there any need to keep it? No aircraft to put there, very close to a busy RAF Lakenheath, also close to RAF Marham, and we already have enough empty runways.

[arfah]

.....................

[shark bait]

If Stansted is too far away I Don't see the townies straying out to Suffolk.

[arfah]

...................

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

Far be it from me to assume but i have a sneaking suspicion that the council is exaggerating the potential economic effects of Mildenhall's closure. For a start Lakenheath can be no more than 5 miles away, at most. Secondly, the USAF is actually expanding its Lakenheath presence; the base set to house the first contingent of forward deployed F-35s for the USAF, in addition to the vast quantity of Eagles that it already has on site, plus will shift a number of Mildenhall’s duties over to Lakenheath to boot IIRC - meaning even more aircraft/personnel will be transferred. Certainly there might be some loss but I can’t see how it will be as pronounced as they are making out.

Frankly i think they are just going to have to suck it up as there is no need to encumber the MoD with yet more unused land unless there is a very compelling case to make for retaining the base in the RAF's hands...

[Pseudo]

Close mildenhall and lakenheath, London gets a new airport with 2 runways.

Handy Spaceport for Skylon.

[arfah]

........................

[arfah]

....................

[ArmChairCivvy]

C'on, it is just a bit of software
... any inheritance from the mulling over of EMALS for the QEs?

[shark bait]

sounds like a tough job. Does it still throw 1 out of every 10 aircraft into the sea?

[ArmChairCivvy]

When the US guarantee for the price of the actual kit (of which Ford and Kennedy will have more) was under discussion, it was estimated at:
- the necessary equipment would cost £458 million before installation. Defence experts estimated the installation cost at £400  million

[ArmChairCivvy]

Does it still throw 1 out of every 10 aircraft into the sea?

Don't know (Qinetic got the contract for the 2nd one; was the first cut producing lemons... sounds like it). But at least EMALS could have thrown this (which the steam capapults could not do): http://www.theblackvault.com/documentar ... y-stealth/#

[The Armchair Soldier]

The Germans apparently want to arm their new Heron TPs with Brimstone:
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /78723784/ (scroll to the bottom)

[ArmChairCivvy]

The Brimstone part is great news.

Divulging mid 2010's secrets for use to build something for mid 2020's intro to service just shows how desperate the national air-minded defence companies have become in Europe:
" the Israelis also assured that the know-how could be used for the development of a European drone. IAI sees the Bundeswehr as an important reference customer for Heron TP drone, and the state of Israel is backing the deal, the person said. So far this UAV is only in use by the Israeli Defense Forces"
- their nukes, after all, have a second strike capability off German designed and made subs... so a fair exchange, then? [Except that the Germans pay for the subs, before the nuclear part is installed... and the Israelis still haggle for a better deal!]

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

France Launches Aster Upgrade

PARIS — France has signed a contract for the Aster Block 1 New Technology program, launching an expected upgrade of the Aster surface-to-air missile, expanding its intercept range, the French procurement office said.

“The contract was signed by the Direction Générale de l’Armement Dec. 23 2015 with the Eurosam consortium, which comprises MBDA and Thales,” the DGA said in a Wednesday statement.

...

Britain, France and Italy also signed on Monday a memorandum of understanding for maintaining the capability and improving the systems on the Aster weapon, the spokesman said.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /78731208/

Thought this was interesting. Not sure what the bolded part actually means for us however. Does this mean we also intended to pursue the Block 1 NT programme does our MoU simply meant to cover non-specific capability sustainment work??

EDIT: It would seem France's contract is specifically in relation to Block 1 NT for the SAMP/T system only, so presumably this will not, for the time being, makes its way in to UK hands. Still, it should improve future prospects i should think.

A roadmap for Aster Block 2 is also in the pipe it would seem. Good to see the ball rolling on this one, sound thinking to try and keep ahead of the game.

[The Armchair Soldier]

Quoting eagle spotters from the Italian Armed Forces thread, RR may be supplying MT30s to Italy for its new LHD:

Rumors:

- new italian LHD (LHA ) will be Christened "Trieste"
- CODOG propulsion system will have 2 x Rolls-Royce MT30 TAGs.