UK Defence Forum

Caribbean wrote: ↑06 Oct 2022, 20:53I believe the Sigma 10514s are the ones that will be replaced by the two new T31s.

Really? I though Indonesian Iver-Huitfeldt derivative is to replace some of their numerous corvettes?

Interestingly, they are about the same dimensions as many have proposed for the RB3, if it ever were to be built. 105m x 14 and 2350t or thereabouts....You can pack a lot into a small hull, it seems. Carries 1x76mm, 2 x 20mm, 30mm Millennium gun, 12 x Mica VL, 8 x Exocet and 2 x triple LWT tubes and hangar/ flight deck for an AS565 Panther.
Needs a crew of 120, though

It is as armed as RN Type-31. So, basically, equipment defines the crew size... But, hull size also matters. Thus, I think Indonesian navy is simply not so much putting stress on automation (automation is expensive).

Looking at this photo, I felt that River B2 is an OPV, while Damen Sigma 10514 is a corvette. River B2 has high bow. I think she is devoting many of her weight margin to improve the sea-keeping capability, while corvettes typically with lower bow are saving the weights to be used for armaments. A different policy on the hull.

River B2 is really focused on being a good OPV.

Hopefully minor issue for HMS Trent.

She now looks like in the Yokohama Honmoku dock of Mitsubishi (She moved from Yokosuka). I think she will be attending the JMSDF international feet review planned on 6th Nov. She will be representing UK there.

In the meantime, HMS Forth was also working hard. Welcome back to her home, Mare Harbour.

see twitter.com/HMS_Forth/status/1586485510427783169

It's good to be home. We have now happily returned to the Falkland Islands after a period away exercising with our international partners

Along with our sister ship HMS Tamar, we (HMS Spey and Tamar) are the ‘Greenest’ warships in the Royal Navy. As IMO Tier 3 compliant ships, we have freedom to operate in emission-controlled areas around the globe, many of which lie in our Indo-Asia Pacific operating area.

Interesting argument. Having a smallish, environment friendly patrol ship has "some" merit, even if it is not large.

HMS Spey joining Keen sward, US-Japan exercise with Australia, Canada and RN joining.

From see twitter.com/NavyLookout/status/1594366119019626496

HMS_Spey participated in 10-day exercise KeenSword involving 30 ships and 370 aircraft from Japan, US, Australia and Canada. 1st time RN has joined in this major biannual Pacific exercise.

Spey's main role was to protect larger units against fast attack craft during a simulated amphibious assault.

Showing that "how a very lightly armed asset can do something in real war scenario". Good.

Of course, the "amphibious assault" may not be against 1st-tier nations. But, after WW2, there have been no "amphibious assault against 1st-tier nations", although there were many many amphibious assault operations world-wide against 2nd or 3rd-tier nations/militia.

"Incapable to survive against 1st-tier enemy" is not always critical. Even River B2, and of course T31, will find good tasks to do in real war. We shall not underestimate it.

On the other hand, whether "1x 30mm gun, 2x 12.7mm MG, 2x 7.62mm gatling, and 4x 7.62mm MG" is suited for these tasks is not clear. Especially that we can foresee cheap (numerous but short leg), middle (dozens with a few km leg), or semi-high-end drones (slow but very long-range) UAVs (and also USVs) coming in these "war against 2nd and 3rd tier nations/militia", any equipment needs must be always reviewed.

It could be 40mm 3P, 30mm proximity fused rounds, LMM mounts, radio-jammer, or something like US UAS Coyote systems. Let's see how it goes...

Good to see her getting stuck in some kit she could carry today in this task would be

2 to 4 x BAE unmanned Pacific 950 armed with 12.7mm or 30mm mount
2 x Camcopter S-100 armed with 2 x LMM
20 x Hero 120 Loiter weapons

HMS Spey and Tamar, both in Yokohama.

I much prefer this paint scheme over the ones used on the UK based Rivers. Very handsome.

Nice model of a River Batch 2 with 3D radar, 40mm Bofors up front and twin 30mm DS30s fitted amidships.

Isn't that the Bae corvette?

Jensy wrote: ↑30 Nov 2022, 15:46 Nice model of a River Batch 2 with 3D radar, 40mm Bofors up front and twin 30mm DS30s fitted amidships.

Now if you could stretch that hull enough to fit hangar (in short term to take Wildcat, in long term to take UAV), then that would have been great IMO for global patrol sloop role that the T31's were*
originally equipped for. Then the T31 could have been equipped and armed as proper Frigates, even if just Tier-Two.j

I love how these "Tiers" crept in this thread. Bet no two folks here have the same definition of what they are. That's assuming they have any.

It's a concept that has been around for several hundred years, under different guises.

Originally based on bits of hardware like number of guns, crew and masts, now based on "capabilities" and build standards.

Don't worry - you'll catch on

wargame_insomniac wrote: ↑30 Nov 2022, 18:28

Jensy wrote: ↑30 Nov 2022, 15:46 Nice model of a River Batch 2 with 3D radar, 40mm Bofors up front and twin 30mm DS30s fitted amidships.

Now if you could stretch that hull enough to fit hangar (in short term to take Wildcat, in long term to take UAV), then that would have been great IMO for global patrol sloop role that the T31's were*
originally equipped for. Then the T31 could have been equipped and armed as proper Frigates, even if just Tier-Two.j

The River B2's are globally deployable ships we could add a 40mm and Camcopter S-100 able to carry 2 LMM now and then move to say S-300 able to carry 6 LMM in a Container

Caribbean wrote: ↑30 Nov 2022, 18:49 It's a concept that has been around for several hundred years, under different guises.

Originally based on bits of hardware like number of guns, crew and masts, now based on "capabilities" and build standards.

Don't worry - you'll catch on

I notice you didn't try and define what they are today

Ron5 wrote: ↑30 Nov 2022, 18:14 Isn't that the Bae corvette?

As in the Khareef Class base design? Or the VT Global Corvette from the old FSC programme?

Jensy wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 21:34

Ron5 wrote: ↑30 Nov 2022, 18:14 Isn't that the Bae corvette?

As in the Khareef Class base design? Or the VT Global Corvette from the old FSC programme?

Khareef. Bae have been trying to sell it in South America for some time.

https://www.baesystems.com/en/product/corvettes

Ron5 wrote: ↑06 Dec 2022, 15:52

Jensy wrote: ↑01 Dec 2022, 21:34

Ron5 wrote: ↑30 Nov 2022, 18:14 Isn't that the Bae corvette?

As in the Khareef Class base design? Or the VT Global Corvette from the old FSC programme?

Khareef. Bae have been trying to sell it in South America for some time.

https://www.baesystems.com/en/product/corvettes

Quite so. Pretty certain that model is a River B2/Krabi/Amazonas equivalent howeve not entirely sure who it is aimed at.

Chile and Colombia both recently added the OPV-80 design and the later has ordered four Damen SIGMA-10514s, which beat, amongst others, BMT's Venator 110.

HMS Tamar and Spey, continuing their "presence" tasks, tirelessly. Great work!