Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Contains threads on British Army equipment of the past, present and future.
dmereifield
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by dmereifield »

BB85 wrote: 01 Mar 2022, 19:20 The Ukrainians are certainly making good use of their NLAW and Javelin missiles. Hopefully we can ship a good few more over to them to help clear a 40km traffic jam.

For all the complaints about how the British army lacks mass it really shows how easily it can reduced with effective ATGMs. It's frustrating knowing NATO could take out the all of that exposed Russian armour inside Ukraine but for the threat of nuclear escalation.

Hopefully they are assisting in more covert ways outside the gaze of the media to level the playing field will still maintaining deniability.
Isn't it a big indication that things are not progressing as well as we might hope since Ukrainian forces are not able to target such larger juicy targets?

In what more covert ways do you think we are helping?

inch
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by inch »

It does make you really wonder how if the Russians had been up against NATO forces ,the lessons and takeaways both sides will be learning from this tragic events,also if NATO had properly supplied Ukraine a lot earlier or NATO had just put 500k troops into Ukraine first ,but yes NLAW and javelin and good tactics training and bravery from Ukraine ,they have done brilliantly , against the russian army

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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by SW1 »

inch wrote: 01 Mar 2022, 21:03 It does make you really wonder how if the Russians had been up against NATO forces ,the lessons and takeaways both sides will be learning from this tragic events,also if NATO had properly supplied Ukraine a lot earlier or NATO had just put 500k troops into Ukraine first ,but yes NLAW and javelin and good tactics training and bravery from Ukraine ,they have done brilliantly , against the russian army
Exactly right between nuclear powers he who gets there first dictates the terms, we saw that at pristina in Kosovo all them years ago. The time for NATO in Ukraine was 3 weeks ago. But the security pundits now demanding action were the same ones telling us all putin was bluffing and there was no way he was invading.
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BB85
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by BB85 »

NATO has bent over backwards not to give Putin an excuse to escalate things. He still went ahead and invaded but had to do so without any kind of credible justification leaving him isolated internationally. If we put troops in before hand I think Putin would have bitten on anything to justify invading sooner.

I don't think we are doing anything covertly, more hoping we would, similar to how Putin used proxies to deny direct involvement. Why can we not equip Ukraine with enough drones and loiter munitions to take out Russia's supply lines.

inch
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by inch »

Nevermind anything ,it just time for NATO to just march in ,and smash Russia ,if it's going to be ww3 so be it , Putin next play after Ukraine will be demanding all NATO nukes and forces out of eastern Europe or else threaten with NATO with a nuke war ,I can see this one coming also threaten Sweden Finland etc , Putin going for shit or broke ,so say go in now and smash him ,if it's total war so be it

BB85
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by BB85 »

I don't think that would result in a good outcome for anyone. If NATO did intervene it wouldn't take Putin long to realise he would lose a conventional war and launch a tactical nuke at Kyiv. The only response to that is Armageddon. If Putin loses this war he will he removed from power so he is already fighting for self preservation which means nothing is off the cards to him.
The west is hoping the longer Ukraine holds out the more likely he is to see sense or be removed from power.

Caribbean
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by Caribbean »

inch wrote: 02 Mar 2022, 07:33 Nevermind anything ,it just time for NATO to just march in ,and smash Russia ,if it's going to be ww3 so be it , Putin next play after Ukraine will be demanding all NATO nukes and forces out of eastern Europe or else threaten with NATO with a nuke war ,I can see this one coming also threaten Sweden Finland etc , Putin going for shit or broke ,so say go in now and smash him ,if it's total war so be it
As the crow flies, I'm 33 miles from Central London - is that far enough to be outside the blast radius?
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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Phil R
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by Phil R »

Caribbean wrote: 02 Mar 2022, 09:20 As the crow flies, I'm 33 miles from Central London - is that far enough to be outside the blast radius?
Depends on how much the MIRV misses Central London.

Phil R.

inch
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by inch »

Think about 125 km death range from central London ,we all will be gone in UK but you can't live with tyranny or threat of tyranny folks

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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by SW1 »

inch wrote: 02 Mar 2022, 10:17 Think about 125 km death range from central London ,we all will be gone in UK but you can't live with tyranny or threat of tyranny folks
We have in the past, we do today, some we even call allies. It’s a brutal truth but we defended nato to the end but not others.

dmereifield
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by dmereifield »

After this shambles, and the cost in materiel, lives and resources, Putin can't (even if he wanted to) try to take Sweden, Finland et al.

The Russian military will be exhausted after this

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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by SW1 »

dmereifield wrote: 02 Mar 2022, 11:50 After this shambles, and the cost in materiel, lives and resources, Putin can't (even if he wanted to) try to take Sweden, Finland et al.

The Russian military will be exhausted after this
People made a similar argument when he annexed crimea and started massing on the border of Ukraine he’d be mad to do it he can’t.

If I was in a democratic non nato country bordering Russia I’d be asking for the NATO application papers pronto.
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by dmereifield »

SW1 wrote: 02 Mar 2022, 12:30
dmereifield wrote: 02 Mar 2022, 11:50 After this shambles, and the cost in materiel, lives and resources, Putin can't (even if he wanted to) try to take Sweden, Finland et al.

The Russian military will be exhausted after this
People made a similar argument when he annexed crimea and started massing on the border of Ukraine he’d be mad to do it he can’t.

If I was in a democratic non nato country bordering Russia I’d be asking for the NATO application papers pronto.
Of course those countries should be worried, but he hasn't got the resources to roll over one of the larger countries like Sweden after this effort, especially if he has the bulk of the invading forces deployed in Ukraine trying to hold down the Ukrainian resistance. I would think (again, not that I have any expertise in the matter), he'd need 5-10 years to build up the resources and headcount again...

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

dmereifield wrote: 02 Mar 2022, 15:32 to build up the resources and headcount again
The interesting thing is that conscripts have been sent across the border when the law expressly forbids that. E.g. the 2nd war in checnya was mainly fought by OMON and after that there has been a push to have enough kontraktniki, not to have to repeat that
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inch
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by inch »

I think Finland and Sweden would kick his arse ,a modern air force, meteor missiles,f35 for Finland soon ,think Russia just been shown up tbh by Ukrainians , Sweden got NLAW as well and modern air defence systems ,the myth about Russia just been well and truly burst,,they got nukes but so does everyone else
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by Lord Jim »

If Putin continues to become the 21st Century's version of Hitler and acts in an irrational manner, he only has a certain sized window of opportunity to do so and Finland is definitely not a country he would want to engage. It is one of the few countries bordering Russia with a military that is of greater strength and far better organised than Russia. Only in airpower does Russia have a small advantage and it would cost them many of their serviceable aircraft to gain even a small advantage.

Whilst Finland does not use Javelin I believe it uses versions of Spike as well as legacy Russian missiles. It could also purchase substantially more and use them effectively as its conscripts and reserves are trained to a level to be able to use weapons that are currently not in Finnish serve readily.

Javelin is a good weapon systems but it is not the best NATO uses. Even its latest version is out performed by both European and Israeli systems. Javelin though is most likely cheaper due to the number being manufactured for the US Army alone.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lord Jim wrote: 03 Mar 2022, 03:03 Whilst Finland does not use Javelin I believe it uses versions of Spike as well as legacy Russian missiles.
The latter since long gone. After the Georgia war their was an assessment of the BUK missiles, too, whether they could be made 'interference free' as in Georgia they had (with Ukrainian help for mod'ding the electronics) worked, but the outcome was to buy NASAMS - which is also a distributed systems and as such more resilient against SEAD/DEAD.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by Lord Jim »

Thanks for the additional info.

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SKB
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by SKB »


(Forces News) 9th March 2022
British troops in Lithuania have been demonstrating some of the anti-tank weapons which the UK is sending to Ukraine. The NLAW and Javelin have already been used effectively against Russian armour and Britain is promising further shipments.

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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by Lord Jim »

It has been reported that not insignificant numbers of Ukrainian weaponry has been captured by Russian forces including weapons recently given to them by other counties. This has led to these weapons actually being used against Ukrainian Forces, with both NL:AW and Javelin being well liked. Both are more advanced than the anti tank weapons in general use by the Russian Army and show their troops how advanced NATO kit can be.

Looking at destroyed Russian Tanks though I do find it interesting to see how ineffective the cages mounted on the turrets of some Russian Tanks have been verses top attack weapons. At a guess I would say the weapons are detonating far enough away from the target to form their penetrators which can go through the bar armour or more correctly the gaps between the bars. At least that is my guess.

BB85
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by BB85 »

I'm sure Russia and China have already managed to get their hands on a few NLAW and Javelin missiles long before now to assess their effectiveness and try to reverse engineer them.

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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by mr.fred »

Lord Jim wrote: 18 Mar 2022, 03:40 Looking at destroyed Russian Tanks though I do find it interesting to see how ineffective the cages mounted on the turrets of some Russian Tanks have been verses top attack weapons. At a guess I would say the weapons are detonating far enough away from the target to form their penetrators which can go through the bar armour or more correctly the gaps between the bars. At least that is my guess.
The standoffs you can typically apply to a moving vehicle are pretty much insignificant in degrading the effectiveness of a shaped charge when compared to roof or side armour. The jets will be going through the cage, through the roof, through the floor and probably a considerable distance into the ground

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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by jimthelad »

Depends on the focal point of the charge and angle of the liner cone. The wider the warhead diameter, the further the standoff usually.

sunstersun
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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by sunstersun »

It is funny that the Russians don't have a third gen ATGM.

That T-34 spam legacy negatively affecting the Russian army now.

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Re: Javelin Anti-Tank Missile (British Army)

Post by leonard »

I truly live and extraordinary video of the Javelin Anti- Tank missile in action in Ukraine with the end result on a T72B3

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