105mm L118 Light gun

[Poiuytrewq]

Winsford, and?

Kilroot, Boulby and soon, Woodsmith.

[Timmymagic]

And that's been successful? Sending unreliable, ill-equipped hardware into battle? Perhaps when you want to measure your survivability in hours then it's an irrelevance if you manage 48 hours between maintenance. Why would we want to aim for that?

The Maxims were actually Ukrainian...and incredibly there were 35,000...but they weren't forgotten about. You could certainly argue that a lot of the guns found in the Soledar salt mine storage had been though...can't imagine Ukraine had a need for a lot of factory fresh Thompson SMG from WW2...

And not a shed. A rather unique geological storage facility that has low humidity, low fungus and low maintenance.

Do we have any available salt mines?

I've never said we should do that...

But it was in fact successful. The Russian's were able to replace losses and stabilise their lines.

And yes we do have salt mines....they're in Winsford, Cheshire. And they're massive in the storage world...there is also Boulby nr Saltburn and one in Northern Ireland...

https://www.deepstore.com/

[new guy]

A bit of reversal of fortune as back in the day it was the thing to replace the RN 4.5 with the 155mm from AS90 as that was where all the exciting developments were meant to happen.

TMF was a massive missed opportunity. It would have enabled us to really standardise across the Armed Forces. Now we've got the Navy going in all directions with 127, 114, 57mm, 40mm, 30mm, 20mm for Phalanx (thank god they've not purchased the guns for F-35 as otherwise we'd need to add 25mm to the mix...)....and the Army with 155, 105 and perhaps 127, plus 40CT, 30mm and whatever daft calibre they use for AA in the future. The logical route was 155, 105, 40 CT and 27mm...8 calibres down to 4...

[Caribbean]

you've been called out on dripping memes with no basis in fact.

That's what triggered you? OK, what "memes" have I been "dripping" on here?
This will be interesting, since I've never posted a meme on here. Maybe you meant Twitter?

Not a tankie

Oh, so you're a vatnik?

Winsford, and?

Billingham, Northwich. We've been mining salt for c. 4000 years in the UK, so there are quite a few more, particularly in Cheshire
Try Google. Lots of other types of mine are available. The contents of the National Gallery (quite sensitive to damp) were stored in a former slate mine in WW2.

Storing stuff successfully is still not rocket science - nor need it be hugely expensive.

[RunningStrong]

Winsford, and?

Kilroot, Boulby and soon, Woodsmith.

They're active mines, not geological storage...

[Ron5]

Seems an odd calibre to choose why not 120mm like the guns fitted to most NATO tanks? Why use a 'Navy' size?

The rational is greater range and payload, but also that as the main naval gun of the US and Allies that there will be lots of ammo developments, especially in terms of guided rounds.

But...I wonder if plans will change...L119, even without the longer range of the L118, is proving to be spectacularly useful in Ukraine. And survivable too...from losses we've seen to date it could certainly claim to be the most survivable towed gun. And I'd argue if you take into account where a lot of them have been deployed (plenty around Bakhmut for example), the number of rounds fired, proximity to the enemy etc. they might be, all things considered, the most survivable gun in Ukraine...

If its that good (as we knew it was already from decades of use) do we really need to change it?

Single piece ammo too which would help the auto loader. Plus longer range available like Vulcano.

A bit of reversal of fortune as back in the day it was the thing to replace the RN 4.5 with the 155mm from AS90 as that was where all the exciting developments were meant to happen.

There's been no mention of where the actual gun is coming from in this new project. I can't think of one that's suitable that currently exists. A brand new weapon would be rather expensive to develop.

[Ron5]

A bit of reversal of fortune as back in the day it was the thing to replace the RN 4.5 with the 155mm from AS90 as that was where all the exciting developments were meant to happen.

TMF was a massive missed opportunity. It would have enabled us to really standardise across the Armed Forces. Now we've got the Navy going in all directions with 127, 114, 57mm, 40mm, 30mm....and the Army with 155, 105 and perhaps 127, plus 40CT, 30mm and whatever daft calibre they use for AA in the future. The logical route was 155, 105, 40 CT and 27mm...8 calibres down to 4...

Surely better to standardize with our Naval partners, especially those in NATO.

[RunningStrong]

That's what triggered you? OK, what "memes" have I been "dripping" on here?
This will be interesting, since I've never posted a meme on here. Maybe you meant Twitter?

Clearly you're not aware of what a meme is, you're just a parrot.

Oh, so you're a vatnik?

Oh babes, someone disagrees with you and suddenly you have to resort to your lowest eb?

Billingham, Northwich. We've been mining salt for c. 4000 years in the UK, so there are quite a few more, particularly in Cheshire
Try Google. Lots of other types of mine are available. The contents of the National Gallery (quite sensitive to damp) were stored in a former slate mine in WW2.

Storing stuff successfully is still not rocket science - nor need it be hugely expensive.

Not sure you're quite aware of the difference between geological storage and active mining sites. Where shall we start this discussion, basic definitions?

[Caribbean]

Clearly you're not aware of what a meme is, you're just a parrot.

LOL - so you can't find a single meme that I've posted, can you? Care to note who I was parrotting?

I won't hold my breath - you're clearly in the grip of some weird breakdown.

Let's see if I can post a meme - I've never done it on this platform

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1675782521

[RunningStrong]

Clearly you're not aware of what a meme is, you're just a parrot.

LOL - so you can't find a single meme that I've posted, can you? Care to note who I was parrotting?

I won't hold my breath - you're clearly in the grip of some weird breakdown.

Let's see if I can post a meme - I've never done it on this platform

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1675782521

Again, because you don't know what a meme is

"Russia seems to be producing large numbers of tanks & APCs after leaving them to rust in a field for 50 years. Ukraine also just dug 10,000 maxims out of a warehouse somewhere to convert into anti-UAV systems"

[Caribbean]

Not sure you're quite aware of the difference between geological storage and active mining sites.

I don't think you are either. Both the ones I suggested were taken from a list of inactive salt mines (and Billingham was put up for sale not so long ago)
And, of course, active mines also have inactive areas & shafts, especially if they have been going for many years.

[Caribbean]

"Russia seems to be producing large numbers of tanks & APCs after leaving them to rust in a field for 50 years. Ukraine also just dug 10,000 maxims out of a warehouse somewhere to convert into anti-UAV systems"

Are you sure English is your first language? That's not a meme, it's simply a statement of fact.

The Russians have publicly admitted that they are taking hulls out of storage and refurbishing them - currently at a rate of around 50-60 a month. There are people in the OSINT community that specialise in tracking this sort of thing & can tell you exactly how many hulls, and of which types, have been taken out of storage in which sites, using commercial satellite imagery of the open field storage sites.

One T-54 (numbered 302) was recently photographed as disabled in Ukrain, with the photo being posted on Twitter alongside a photo of it entering Budapest in 1956. Much of it's time in between those two photos was apparently spent as a gate guardian.

The Ukrainian MOD published photos recently of the twin Maxim mounts, in active service with territorial defense units. Apparently proving effective against Iranian drones.

Nah - there's more to this than me posting some, frankly uncontroversial & incontrovertible, facts.

I think you didn't know that both those facts were true, decided to be an arse about it, then discovered that they were in fact both true and now don't have the balls to back down, admit you were wrong and apologise.

[RunningStrong]

Are you sure English is your first language? That's not a meme, it's simply a statement of fact.

And yet you've posted conjecture and twitter as your "facts"

None of what you've posted aligns with the memes that you parroted. Only that you've swallowed limited data points on 1940s hardware and then tried to make a ham-fisted attempt of claiming it's relevant to a conversation on modern military hardware.

Back in your box.

[Caribbean]

And yet you've posted conjecture and twitter as your "facts"

Russian & Ukrainian MOD Press releases are "conjecture". OK.

I can agree that a lot of Russian statements need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but when they corroborate what is seen by OSINT sources and by Ukrainian forces in the field, then I think we can believe them when they say that they are refurbishing old systems that were stored in the open for 50 years.

You seem to be making less and less sense. I made no attempt to link anything to modern hardware, just pointed out that Russia & Ukraine had had access to huge amounts of war stocks despite having only the most basic storage facilities. They may not be high-tech, but they are certainly having an impact on the battle-field

No-one has suggested that we attempt to emulate them. Only that we stop selling off equipment the minute it goes out of service and put it into storage as war stocks.

Am I now to understand that you are offended by my statement that storage is not rocket science?

So you contend that it IS rocket science?

[RunningStrong]

And yet you've posted conjecture and twitter as your "facts"

Russian & Ukrainian MOD Press releases are "conjecture". OK.

In an information war, yes.

You seem to be making less and less sense. I made no attempt to link anything to modern hardware,

You're literally in a thread talking about modern hardware.

No-one has suggested that we attempt to emulate them.

You quite literally have.

Am I now to understand that you are offended by my statement that storage is not rocket science?

So you contend that it IS rocket science?

I've not been offended once by your childish name-calling. It's been quite a dramatic case of self destruction on your part, but at least you've learned how to post images. Old dogs, eh?

[Timmymagic]

TMF was a massive missed opportunity. It would have enabled us to really standardise across the Armed Forces. Now we've got the Navy going in all directions with 127, 114, 57mm, 40mm, 30mm....and the Army with 155, 105 and perhaps 127, plus 40CT, 30mm and whatever daft calibre they use for AA in the future. The logical route was 155, 105, 40 CT and 27mm...8 calibres down to 4...

Surely better to standardize with our Naval partners, especially those in NATO.
[/quote]

Yes and No. 127 is better than 114 for sure. But there will be greater production of 155, more developments of advanced rounds, shared stockpile etc. 105 gets the job done, 40CT is being used by the French on naval vessels and should have been the principal Army medium calubre round and 27mm used by the Bundesmarine and is the main RAF autocannon calibre (granted 30mm might make more sense than 27mm in a naval sense, but there is little between the 2 in terms of performance).

I must admit to missing off 20mm for Phalanx though...

[Caribbean]

So you got your knickers in a twist over this?

Russia seems to be producing large numbers of tanks & APCs after leaving them to rust in a field for 50 years. Ukraine also just dug 10,000 maxims out of a warehouse somewhere to convert into anti-UAV systems

And responded with this

Are you trying to have a meaningful discussion or just regurgitate memes?

I was involved in the former. Until your childish & rude intervention.

and with this

Russia has neither taken AFV out of fields or taken 10,000 maxims out of a forgotten warehouse.

A totally incorrect statement

It was also clear that your verbal comprehension is poor, as you apparently don't understand that I was referring to 2 different countries

Then, when it was pointed out that you were wrong, you refused to acknowledge your error

You appear to be a rather immature individual. I suspect you have demonstrated that aspect of your character rather more eloquently than you intended

[SW1]

Skis on a light gun

[Caribbean]

LOL - just had visions of Harry Secombe meeting Spike Milligan for the first time, after the recoil made his gun jump out of it's firing pit & go for a downhill trundle in the dark. Spike set off to find it. He saw a radio truck, and stuck his head through the curtain

Spike: "Anybody seen a gun"
Harry Secombe: "What colour was it?"

I hope they take the skis off to fire.

[Poiuytrewq]

Skis on a light gun

Low cost solution. Great.

[SW1]

Skis on a light gun

Low cost solution. Great.

I wonder if you could attach it to a skidoo

[Poiuytrewq]

Skis on a light gun

Low cost solution. Great.

I wonder if you could attach it to a skidoo

Low friction so moving it isn’t hard.

Tackling the slopes and employing effective breaking downhill may be problematic.

[mr.fred]

I hope they take the skis off to fire.

What, have you never heard of shoot and scoot?

[Caribbean]

What, have you never heard of shoot and scoot?

I think that qualifies as "taking to the next level"