SDSR wish list

[marktigger]

Given we've 10 or so days till the Govt release their next 5 year plan I wonder what contributors to this forum's wish list's would be. Not Pie in sky stuff but some thoughts.

[bobp]

Apache Helicopter
P8 MPA
Typhoon T1
Some extra personnel for Navy and RAF

[marktigger]

type 26
MPA
Tranche 1 typhoon
Apache
Wheeled AFV
more personnel for navy and army

[RichardIC]

Manpower - particularly for the RN
MPA
MARS SSS
T26

But above all else some definitive answers rather than stuff being kicked perpetually into the long grass

[Lugzy]

Manpower -Navy/RFA/RAF
Some sort of guarantee on type 26 numbers,
commitment to the replacment of the bv206 for the RM
A more extensive challenger 2 life extension program
Apache
8x8 wheeled afv
MPA
Tranche 1 typhoon reprieve

[downsizer]

Decent fucking pay rise would be nice.

[marktigger]

Decent fucking pay rise would be nice.

Afraid thats beyond the scope of SDSR thats in the public sector pay round.

[downsizer]

Decent fucking pay rise would be nice.

Afraid thats beyond the scope of SDSR thats in the public sector pay round.

Is it really? Fuck, I had no idea.

[Tinman]

Manpower -Navy/RFA/RAF
Some sort of guarantee on type 26 numbers,
commitment to the replacment of the bv206 for the RM
A more extensive challenger 2 life extension program
Apache
8 Wheeled afv
MPA
Tranche 1 typhoon reprieve

T26 numbers will be 8+5.
RN to get uplift in manning.
CR2 CLEP is stalled due to either infighting or decisions on where to go.
WAH64 = AH64E Guardian, Westlands will be kicked off this on as the MOD wants VFM.
8 Wheeled AFV, hahahahahaahhaahahah
T1 reprive likely only to release the upgraded ones out to play when brimstone is cleared, followed by swift reduction in GR4 capability 2017 - 2018.

[shark bait]

T26 numbers will be meaningless. It will be up 4 different governments to see the project through and we know fickle they can be!
The real indicator of how many we get will not be the arbitrary number this SDSR gives it, rather it will be the unit price which is the most important question mark left in the program.

[shark bait]

I wouldn't call it a wish list, but I would consider the SDSR a success if we see
- an MPA orded (preferably not a competition)
- both carriers properly ran
- tranche 1's retained
- solid support ship orded

Elsewhere I would like to see stability. Continuing with the plan, with some funding to fill the gaps left from the last review. Fix them and return to a fully complement force before we start ripping new holes again.

[Lugzy]

@tinman , I was under the impression it was a SDSR wish list , emphasis on the WISH part , didn't really expect a reply in detail to it tbh ,

I'm just glad I left the lazer death ray equipped giant sea turtles off the list

[SKB]

A new/enlarged dry dock big enough for a QE class in HMNB Portsmouth please. If thats not a strategic asset, then I don't know what is.

[OldSoldier8888]

Extra 2000 personnel for Royal Navy
Purchase of MPA
Apaches
Purchase of two BAe 146 aircraft

[andrew98]

6% and deterrent/successor costs back to being from special treasury reserve!
Wish list, never gonna happen though...

[WhiteWhale]

'Don't fuck it all up... any more then you already have'.

[jonas]

Manpower - particularly for the RN
MPA
MARS SSS
T26

But above all else some definitive answers rather than stuff being kicked perpetually into the long grass

Ditto. Particularly in regards to last sentence, but perhaps that's a wish to far.

[ArmChairCivvy]

The story has it that NSS and SDSR will be released simultaneously.

So would be nice to see valid questions (NSS listing and rating of threat scenarios) and relevant answers (what the SDSR proposes as for force structure, kit and readiness).
- with the home work getting good marks, there might even be x-party support for increased resources

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

Seems the Army is not getting anywhere near enough love in here. It took some of the biggest hits of the last SDSR and has, relatively speaking, been playing second fiddle to the other two services so far as major procurement programmes over the past decade or so. Their manpower concerns are equally pressing - not to mention the very real argument to be made that 82,000 Regulars - even maintained at strength - is insufficient for our security needs.

My Army oriented hopes would be:
- The launch of an initiative for the replacement of Challenger 2 - COTS/MOTS or new national project.
- Additional funding for an increased commitment to the ABSV programme.
- Review of the decision to scrap or cut down follow own Ajax orders.
- Cast iron commitments to the Army's intended major programmes over the course of this parliament (particularly the MIV programme and others).
- A bit of love for the Royal Artillery based on what they think their current/near future requirements are.
- Additional funding for recruitment and retention so as to properly man Army 2020.


Wild card - Army 2020's mandated manpower ceiling is increased from 82,000.

[shark bait]

Seems the Army is not getting anywhere near enough love in here.

Personally I think the army should be fine. For me army 2020 is mostly a sound concept. I think they would benifit from some stability and funds to help fill the gaps in army 2020 and I am optimistic they may accheive some of that.

I dont think they are playing seccond fiddle either, they have billions of pounds of aircaft programs and even bigger value land vehcilce programs in the works.

I suppose its a matter of perspective, I think there are bigger holes in the navy and RFA, than in the army. Likewise if the current RAF plan is seen through there will be big holes there too, and a strong army needs a strong navy, RFA and air force.

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

Seems the Army is not getting anywhere near enough love in here.

Personally I think the army should be fine. For me army 2020 is mostly a sound concept. I think they would benifit from some stability and funds to help fill the gaps in army 2020 and I am optimistic they may accheive some of that.

I dont think they are playing seccond fiddle either, they have billions of pounds of aircaft programs and even bigger value land vehcilce programs in the works.

I suppose its a matter of perspective, I think there are bigger holes in the navy and RFA, than in the army. Likewise if the current RAF plan is seen through there will be big holes there too, and a strong army needs a strong navy, RFA and air force.

Completely disagree, sorry. It doesn't take much to look beyond the UOR's and see that the Army has been gasping for major programmes these past few years or so which have either been delayed or cut wholesale due to funding going elsewhere (just look at the Royal Artillery!). In that time the RN has basically secured itself a brand new fleet and the RAF has in many respects achieved much the same with regards to kit based projects coming online. The Army Air Corps is arguably the only exception in all of this but even then decisions taken have been argued as having been based highly driven by military industrial considerations as opposed to the explicit demands of the service (some people are unhappy about Wildcat for example).

Moreover people more knowledgeable than myself have already flagged serious concerns about Army 2020 being a hollow plan already. Perfectly sound in theory - in so much as that it is making the very best out of a bad situation (manpower cuts from 2010) - but that at the moment theory is not being met with resources. There are serious manpower gaps within Army 2020's intended formations which has in turn led to a need for creative force structure - deviating from original plans. Things like formations as half or three quarter’s strength, units being stripped away from parent formations and diverted to others without replacement or compensation.

The Army is a projectile to be fired by the Royal Navy and, these days, covered by the RAF. No doubt it can be argued until blue in the face but the Army is for many, myself included, still the decisive arm in the tri-service equation and one that has been very much neglected of late (even the UORs are symptomatic of that).

[downsizer]

Fuck off. The army got off lightly last time because of Herrick. The RN and RAF lost much much more capability than land.

[~UNiOnJaCk~]

Fuck off. The army got off lightly last time because of Herrick. The RN and RAF lost much much more capability than land.

Sure but whilst the army didn't lost as much capability with regards to kit it still lost nigh on 20,000 personnel and had to wait longer for new programmes to work their way along the pipe, no? In the meantime a whole raft of contracts were announced and or progressed within both the RN and RAF. It was only last year that we saw Ajax get given the go ahead at long last and only this year that the successor programme to FRES UV was finally activated. The Army's major programmes have, to the best of my knowledge, been put on a relative back burner for years now. Hopefully the Army will recieve some much needed postive care and attention in this latest SDSR.

[downsizer]

Not buying it. They could have made the tough choices before now they probably will take some of the pain that Air and Sea took last time. Previous army leadership was Herrick centric with no foresight, now they will reap what they sow. This sob story is pure BS.

All that said, I don't think they'll do too badly either.

[arfah]

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