Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

What will be the result of the 'Lighter Frigate' programme?

Programme cancelled, RN down to 14 escorts
52
10%
Programme cancelled & replaced with GP T26
14
3%
A number of heavy OPVs spun as "frigates"
127
25%
An LCS-like modular ship
22
4%
A modernised Type 23
24
5%
A Type 26-lite
71
14%
Less than 5 hulls
22
4%
5 hulls
71
14%
More than 5 hulls
103
20%
 
Total votes: 506

SD67
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by SD67 »

This debate is a bit pointless. T31 is obviously the new type 21 but with better growth margins. Second line Patrol frigates. Not OPVs, not ASW. But the idea that they’re not fit to be sent to war is silly. We sent flower class corvettes to war. Not every job needs a 8000t billion pound warship. T21s pounded Port Stanley with NGFS. IMHO a they’re a helluva lot more war- related than a LCS

Also I wouldn’t underestimate “showing the flag”. There’s a global land grab going on and getting they’re first and monitoring/building alliances could maybe stop a war from happening the first place
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by wargame_insomniac »

mrclark303 wrote: 14 Jan 2023, 18:06
Tempest414 wrote: 14 Jan 2023, 14:51 the Type 31 as laid out in the RFI is slowly fading way and being replaced with a ship that could be a good global Patrol frigate if it gets its 24 CAMM and 8 NSM as I think it will
I think it has to have 24 Sea Ceptor as a minimum fit, any less is foolhardy....

Thank god they went with a large platform for T31, it offers great hope for through life upgrades...
I agree.

I have always thought that (for both River B2's and T31's) that, AS CURRENTLY ARMED, they were designed as too large and too expensive - for both ships they could have been built smaller and cheaper so that RN could have maximised funds spent on high-intensity warfighting and minimised funds spent on vessels optimised for lower intensity missions (e.g. patrolling, humanitarian, anti-piracy and smuggling, policing of British maritime Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ) both home and BOT's, participating with Allied partners in multi-national protection of global shipping lanes e.g. Combind Task Forces / Operation Atalanta / Operation Kipion etc).

But as it has been said before, if the T31's utilise that extra space and are properly uparmed once they have been handed over by Babcock, then they can be upgraded to proper Frigates. Some combination of the following upgrades:
1) Upping CAMM to 24 VLS
2) Adding 8*NSM Canisters (assuming that transferred from T23's as they finish active service)
3) Adding decent Towed Array Sonar
4) Fitting Mk41Strike VLS
which have all been discussed in this and other threads many times.

Yes there will be a cost for each of these upgrades in terms of additional crew required to operate the systems, up front purchase cost and annual repair and maintenance cost (above in order of roughly lower to higher asumed costs). e.g. doubling of CAMM should nt require much in additional crew requirement, but will have cost of extra missiles to fill these extra VLS.

But my view has always been to make best use of the existing hulls BEFORE investing in new hulls - it is why I remain unsure of T32's as anything more than political PR soundbite - the T32;s remain unfunded and we still don;t really know what role they would play.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by SW1 »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 14 Jan 2023, 22:02
(e.g. patrolling, humanitarian, anti-piracy and smuggling, policing of British maritime Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ) both home and BOT's, participating with Allied partners in multi-national protection of global shipping lanes e.g. Combind Task Forces / Operation Atalanta / Operation Kipion etc).
That is the historical definition of what sea power is. Control of trade.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by wargame_insomniac »

SW1 wrote: 14 Jan 2023, 22:13
wargame_insomniac wrote: 14 Jan 2023, 22:02
(e.g. patrolling, humanitarian, anti-piracy and smuggling, policing of British maritime Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ) both home and BOT's, participating with Allied partners in multi-national protection of global shipping lanes e.g. Combind Task Forces / Operation Atalanta / Operation Kipion etc).
That is the historical definition of what sea power is. Control of trade.
Exactly!!

And it is what T31's are optimised for. They may lack the anti-air speciality of T45's and they may lack the anti-submarine speciality of T26's. But if properly upgraded they can be a potent force in global shipping lanes, keeping them clear along with our allies.

And that is what the detractors of T31 miss. They forget we are an island nation depend on these global shipping lanes for both import and export of materials and goods. The T45's and T26's are/will be great at what they do best, but neither are as well suited for these above tasks as T31's IF PROPERLY UPGRADED.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by SW1 »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 14 Jan 2023, 22:54
SW1 wrote: 14 Jan 2023, 22:13
wargame_insomniac wrote: 14 Jan 2023, 22:02
(e.g. patrolling, humanitarian, anti-piracy and smuggling, policing of British maritime Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ) both home and BOT's, participating with Allied partners in multi-national protection of global shipping lanes e.g. Combind Task Forces / Operation Atalanta / Operation Kipion etc).
That is the historical definition of what sea power is. Control of trade.
Exactly!!

And it is what T31's are optimised for. They may lack the anti-air speciality of T45's and they may lack the anti-submarine speciality of T26's. But if properly upgraded they can be a potent force in global shipping lanes, keeping them clear along with our allies.

So maybe what we should be maximising around not minimising

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by wargame_insomniac »

SW1 wrote: 14 Jan 2023, 22:57
wargame_insomniac wrote: 14 Jan 2023, 22:54
SW1 wrote: 14 Jan 2023, 22:13
wargame_insomniac wrote: 14 Jan 2023, 22:02
(e.g. patrolling, humanitarian, anti-piracy and smuggling, policing of British maritime Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ) both home and BOT's, participating with Allied partners in multi-national protection of global shipping lanes e.g. Combind Task Forces / Operation Atalanta / Operation Kipion etc).
That is the historical definition of what sea power is. Control of trade.
Exactly!!

And it is what T31's are optimised for. They may lack the anti-air speciality of T45's and they may lack the anti-submarine speciality of T26's. But if properly upgraded they can be a potent force in global shipping lanes, keeping them clear along with our allies.

So maybe what we should be maximising around not minimising
If you mean getting the most of all the existing escorts before thinking of ordering new escorts such as the T32's, then I can 100% agree.

We struggle to crew the current 18 escorts so I can't see how we will crew 24 escorts any time soon.....

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

It’s worse if you expect that the T31s to be forward based with dual crews like the T23 on Kipion duties.

Efficiency / size of crewing is one of the reason why the B2 Rivers is the perfect forward based platform.

Now that we’ve ordered them, I’m all for upgrading the T31 to be a capable warship able to contribute to the peer type conflicts that will be the future. However, let’s not pretend it can be done magically cheap, will not impact their suitability to be forward based, will not require bigger crews and be as capable as the T26s that should have been built.

The T32 needs to be a completely different platform. The T31 is extremely limited as a mothership for USV/UUVs of any size which will be a key element of the future capabilities. They also are not optimal for supporting the FCF. Yes, we can continue on with the current LPD/LSD and MCM force for another decade, and also buy cheap civilian designed/built motherships, but they need protecting by another escort which piles on more pressure. The T32 is needed, more so than the T31.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jake1992 »

Repulse wrote: 15 Jan 2023, 08:24

The T32 needs to be a completely different platform. The T31 is extremely limited as a mothership for USV/UUVs of any size which will be a key element of the future capabilities. They also are not optimal for supporting the FCF. Yes, we can continue on with the current LPD/LSD and MCM force for another decade, and also buy cheap civilian designed/built motherships, but they need protecting by another escort which piles on more pressure. The T32 is needed, more so than the T31.
This is why Iv come to think the T32 should be something like the Damen Crossover 139, it seems to be the best fit to forfill those needs in a frigate sized vessel.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dm4xU4GXcAAVjin.jpg

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by SW1 »

You need not worry.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

“They (T32) aren’t needed right now” is fair - the current amphibious model can live for another decade and a combination of Hunts / Commercial designs for MCM can probably struggle on for another decade.

HOWEVER, shows perfectly the folly of trying to have to two yards competing to build similar ships when the demand/money isn’t there. ALSO, the T31s everyone is raving about now definitely need to be equipped properly and assigned to protect the amphibious/MCM fleet, keeping the B2s where they are.

My prediction - fudge. The T32 moves to the right, but is not cancelled, and a discussion on a stop gap “OPV” order for Babcock is floated.
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by SW1 »

Or they’ll make a sensible decision and buy a few more type 31s

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

Repulse wrote: 15 Jan 2023, 08:24 It’s worse if you expect that the T31s to be forward based with dual crews like the T23 on Kipion duties.

Efficiency / size of crewing is one of the reason why the B2 Rivers is the perfect forward based platform.

Now that we’ve ordered them, I’m all for upgrading the T31 to be a capable warship able to contribute to the peer type conflicts that will be the future. However, let’s not pretend it can be done magically cheap, will not impact their suitability to be forward based, will not require bigger crews and be as capable as the T26s that should have been built.

The T32 needs to be a completely different platform. The T31 is extremely limited as a mothership for USV/UUVs of any size which will be a key element of the future capabilities. They also are not optimal for supporting the FCF. Yes, we can continue on with the current LPD/LSD and MCM force for another decade, and also buy cheap civilian designed/built motherships, but they need protecting by another escort which piles on more pressure. The T32 is needed, more so than the T31.
Firstly when talk about Type 31 crew levels we need to take a good look at the IH class from were it came. The IH class are as we know a Air defence frigate fitted with

2 x 76mm , 1 x35mm , 56 VLS cells , 16 Harpoon plus a HMS

This ship can be operated by a crew of 100 but needs 118 for damage control so it very likely the same can be said for type 31 even after they have been up armed. The cost of adding 12 CAMM is the fitting of a FCB as the missiles them self have been paid for out of the separate MOD missile budget as will the buying of the NSM missiles so again the cost to the Type 31 program is the fitting of the control system however none of this should effect the crew levels in fact one type 23 crew of 185 should allow a Type 31 to be 1.5 crewed = 177

So for me adding 12 or even 24 CAMM plus 8 NSM will not cost the world and will not impact on the ships ability to be forward deployed in the same way if we were to add a 57mm and 2 x 8 round LMM launchers and 10 x Hero 120 would not effect the B2's crew

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Tempest414 wrote: 15 Jan 2023, 10:07..(T31) So for me adding 12 or even 24 CAMM plus 8 NSM will not cost the world and will not impact on the ships ability to be forward deployed ...
No big objection here, but I think the crew will be at least +10. So, 110 + 10 = 120 (excluding the flight). Not so bad.
in the same way if we were to add a 57mm and 2 x 8 round LMM launchers and 10 x Hero 120 would not effect the B2's crew
I cannot understand what you mean.
- Who are to maintain and reload 57mm gun? It is much bigger than a 30mm gun, which means more maintenance.
- 2 x 8 round LMM is a new assets to be added. If course dedicated crew be needed.

River B2 crew is pretty much stretched, to my understanding, because "lean manning" is essential for long-sea-going days (for x1.5 rotation). Thus up-armed River B2 will also require at least 4-8 more crew (40-44). And, what is more, adding such armaments means planning to use River B2s in (a bit) harms way. This will require additional crew for damage control; 10% more (40-44 x 1.1 = 44-48) or even 20% more (40-44 x1.2 = 48-54).

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 14 Jan 2023, 22:54...
And it is what T31's are optimised for. They may lack the anti-air speciality of T45's and they may lack the anti-submarine speciality of T26's. But if properly upgraded they can be a potent force in global shipping lanes, keeping them clear along with our allies.

And that is what the detractors of T31 miss. They forget we are an island nation depend on these global shipping lanes for both import and export of materials and goods. The T45's and T26's are/will be great at what they do best, but neither are as well suited for these above tasks as T31's IF PROPERLY UPGRADED.
Even if not uparmed, T31 can do such job.

Here let's assume a T31 with, 1x 57mm, 2x 40mm, 24x CAMM, torpedo-defense kit, NS100s radars and EOFCS, and soft-kill kits. This is NOT the end. It can carry 2 Wildcats when needed. It means it can put a single Wildcat "always ready to fly" with 4x SeaVenom or 20x LMMs carried. When the threat is low, she can go with a single Wildcat.

Not bad, I think. Adding NSM is "good", but no need to hurry. Just wait until 2032-2036, when the last five T23ASWs go out of service.

PS By the way, I think removing the port-side boat bay to make the hanger "3 Wildcat capable" will be worth thinking. Following Spanish F100-class, it will be good to make the area "either a Wildcat or a RHIB", with a side-door and a crane. If 3 Wildcat (and 2 RHIBs) are carried, "keeping 1 Wildcat ALWAYS ready" is much more easier. Sending two Wildcats at once can be done, as well (as another one can be ready after the initial two comes back and in short maintenance).
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

donald_of_tokyo wrote: 15 Jan 2023, 13:16
Tempest414 wrote: 15 Jan 2023, 10:07..(T31) So for me adding 12 or even 24 CAMM plus 8 NSM will not cost the world and will not impact on the ships ability to be forward deployed ...
No big objection here, but I think the crew will be at least +10. So, 110 + 10 = 120 (excluding the flight). Not so bad.
in the same way if we were to add a 57mm and 2 x 8 round LMM launchers and 10 x Hero 120 would not effect the B2's crew
I cannot understand what you mean.
- Who are to maintain and reload 57mm gun? It is much bigger than a 30mm gun, which means more maintenance.
- 2 x 8 round LMM is a new assets to be added. If course dedicated crew be needed.

River B2 crew is pretty much stretched, to my understanding, because "lean manning" is essential for long-sea-going days (for x1.5 rotation). Thus up-armed River B2 will also require at least 4-8 more crew (40-44). And, what is more, adding such armaments means planning to use River B2s in (a bit) harms way. This will require additional crew for damage control; 10% more (40-44 x 1.1 = 44-48) or even 20% more (40-44 x1.2 = 48-54).
To be clear Type 31 will end up deploying a crew of 120 + Helicopter crew no matter what weapons are fitted due to the needs of battle damage and this is why I say adding 12 or 64 CAMM and 8 NSM will make no differents to the crew on a type 31 again the IH class carry a full AAW sensor fit , HMS plus 2 x76mm , 1 x 35mm , 56 AA missiles , 16 Harpoon with a crew of 118 but only need 100 to operate the ship the remaining 18 are there for damage control the Helicopter crew is not part of any ships core crew and come from the FAA

The 30mm naval gun needs quite a lot of looking after as it is exposed I would say the 40 mm would take the same number of crew to maintain and operate it as for the LMM mounts this would be maintained by the same team and would take the same two people which already stand too on the Mini guns fitted in the same points the missiles them self are none maintenance at most I would say you would need 2 more crew Max if the ship was fitted with a 40mm and 2 x LMM mounts the ships are by there global deployment in harms way and under FOST have to be able to control damage as a HMS warship must always be seen as a target

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Tempest414 wrote: 15 Jan 2023, 15:46To be clear Type 31 will end up deploying a crew of 120 + Helicopter crew no matter what weapons are fitted due to the needs of battle damage and this is why I say adding 12 or 64 CAMM and 8 NSM will make no differents to the crew on a type 31 again the IH class carry a full AAW sensor fit , HMS plus 2 x76mm , 1 x 35mm , 56 AA missiles , 16 Harpoon with a crew of 118 but only need 100 to operate the ship the remaining 18 are there for damage control the Helicopter crew is not part of any ships core crew and come from the FAA
Again, not sure. In the Navylook out article, they state the standard for escort building differs between Denmark and UK. Also, for most of the time, Iver Huitfeld's Mk.41 VLS was empty. It was only recently they acquired Standard SM-2. But, anyway 120+ flight is no big objection.
The 30mm naval gun needs quite a lot of looking after as it is exposed I would say the 40 mm would take the same number of crew to maintain and operate it
Disagree. Mechanical gears do need good maintenance, and larger/powerful is much more troublesome. As you state 40mm gun now, the difference will be small compared to the 57 mm. But, still it will surely need more crew, may be 2-3 more.
.. as for the LMM mounts this would be maintained by the same team and would take the same two people which already stand too on the Mini guns fitted in the same points the missiles them self are none maintenance at most
Not sure you are proposing to replace mini-guns with LMM or adding LMM. Anyway, if you say "LMM is maintenance free", it is the same as "a 7.62 mm ammo is maintenance free". The control system, turrets, FCSs, all need good maintenance. Surely, "2 more crew" cannot handle them all.
... if the ship was fitted with a 40mm and 2 x LMM mounts the ships are by there global deployment in harms way and under FOST have to be able to control damage as a HMS warship must always be seen as a target
What is the most important, I totally disagree here, sorry. "FOST" does not mean escort-level damage control. FOST is designed according to the standard the ship is designed. FOST for Bays, Tides, Rivers, as well as T45, T23 and CV, all differ.

If River OPVs are to be used in harms way, their damage control standard will be changed (if doable), and thus ingredients of the FOST training will be totally revised. It will surely need more crew. This is very simple thing.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

All RN ships have to go through a battle damage test with FOST the B2's will need to be able to deal with damage from a drone attack or fast boat attack as this is the base line on overseas duty. The B2's will have a 6 man weapon team as I know from my visit to HMS Severn that the B1's had a 5 man team this 6 man team could carry out work on the 40mm 1 day and then move on to work on one of the LMM mounts the next and other the next these systems don't need work every day

as for the LMM missile its self it needs booking out and fitting to the mount the same as the 7.62 rounds need booking out and loading in to the weapon there is a lot of paper work and controls but no maintenance

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Tempest414 wrote: 16 Jan 2023, 15:38All RN ships have to go through a battle damage test with FOST the B2's will need to be able to deal with damage from a drone attack or fast boat attack as this is the base line on overseas duty.
You are saying that River B2's damage control standard can be the same even after the uparming? I think you are thinking to send the River B2s with only a 30mm gun to the same theater you need a 57/40 mm 3P and 2x 8-LMM turret? It is not convincing for me.

If River B2 to be up-armed, its damage control standard must be improved. If not, there is no need for such up-arming (because it will not be used in harms way). Simple, I think.
as for the LMM missile its self it needs booking out and fitting to the mount the same as the 7.62 rounds need booking out and loading in to the weapon there is a lot of paper work and controls but no maintenance
My point is on the turret and EO/FCS. It is a system with mechatronics and sensor kits, which do need maintenance, I guess? Also, when the KIPION MCMV got the StarBurst system added 20 years ago, I understand additional crew was there. (Javelin MANPADS was already "maintenance free" in those days). I'm just thinking the same will apply.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

donald_of_tokyo wrote: 16 Jan 2023, 15:54
Tempest414 wrote: 16 Jan 2023, 15:38All RN ships have to go through a battle damage test with FOST the B2's will need to be able to deal with damage from a drone attack or fast boat attack as this is the base line on overseas duty.
You are saying that River B2's damage control standard can be the same even after the uparming? I think you are thinking to send the River B2s with only a 30mm gun to the same theater you need a 57/40 mm 3P and 2x 8-LMM turret? It is not convincing for me.

If River B2 to be up-armed, its damage control standard must be improved. If not, there is no need for such up-arming (because it will not be used in harms way). Simple, I think.
as for the LMM missile its self it needs booking out and fitting to the mount the same as the 7.62 rounds need booking out and loading in to the weapon there is a lot of paper work and controls but no maintenance
My point is on the turret and EO/FCS. It is a system with mechatronics and sensor kits, which do need maintenance, I guess? Also, when the KIPION MCMV got the StarBurst system added 20 years ago, I understand additional crew was there. (Javelin MANPADS was already "maintenance free" in those days). I'm just thinking the same will apply.
Three things here firstly the B2's should have the upgraded weapons due to being deployed overseas second they were already given a higher damage control over the BAE 90 OPV Amazonas class last the B2's already have a EO system on them so will carry a Bob fix it

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Tempest414 wrote: 16 Jan 2023, 17:20Three things here firstly the B2's should have the upgraded weapons due to being deployed overseas
Partly agree. It all depends on what tasks the OPVs be assigned.
second they were already given a higher damage control over the BAE 90 OPV Amazonas class
I doubt it. Amazonas class has a crew of 80 sailors, while River B2 has only 36 onboard. Big difference. I "guess" the "higher damage control for River B2" is to keep some level even with her lean crew.
last the B2's already have a EO system on them so will carry a Bob fix it
You insist River B2 OPV has many man-power redundant (for damage control) so many tasks can be added without additional crew. I understand River OPVs are very much lean-manned, and everyone has several tasks to do. The sailor doing EOFCS maintenance has many other tasks to do. No redundancy. We differ here.

A River B2 is operated by 36 sailors, and you think adding two 8xLMM turret does not need additional crew. This means, a T31 with 120 sailors (x3.3 of River B2) can add seven 8xLMM turret without any additional crew. As a frigate not an OPV, T31 must have even more redundant crew for damage control, so adding 10 8xLMM could be done without more crew, in your argument.

I just do not think so.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

The B2's have a crew of 45 ( 60 with 1.5 ) plus a platoon of RM

Quote
The Batch 2 ships for the Royal Navy include some 29 modifications and enhancements over the Amazonas-class corvette built by BAE Systems for the Brazilian Navy.[35] The Royal Navy ships are built to more stringent naval standards, with features such as magazine protection, improved hull integrity and fire safety modifications, as well as greater redundancy.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Tempest414 wrote: 17 Jan 2023, 11:42 The B2's have a crew of 45 ( 60 with 1.5 ) plus a platoon of RM
60/1.5 = 40. Not much different from 36.
And, "a platoon of RM" is not always onboard. You can see in many twitter images. HMS Forth does (army), HMS Medway carries several for HDHR in summer, HMS Trent "sometimes" carries marines, and HMS Tamar and Spey, I've never seen them? No always.

But, if you include the 50-more soldiers as her crew, yes, adding two 8xLMM turret is doable, no objection. Note that, the moment they disembark, the OPV will lose its capability to operate LMMs. For me, carrying 3x LMM turret operated by them will be a good "add-on" in a bit higher threat region. After landing, the 3x LMM turret can be also landed with the soldiers for their air-defense. Not bad.
Quote
The Batch 2 ships for the Royal Navy include some 29 modifications and enhancements over the Amazonas-class corvette built by BAE Systems for the Brazilian Navy.[35] The Royal Navy ships are built to more stringent naval standards, with features such as magazine protection, improved hull integrity and fire safety modifications, as well as greater redundancy.
Yes, I knew it. And I think it is to "enable" smaller crew. That's it.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

donald_of_tokyo wrote: 17 Jan 2023, 11:55
Tempest414 wrote: 17 Jan 2023, 11:42 The B2's have a crew of 45 ( 60 with 1.5 ) plus a platoon of RM
60/1.5 = 40. Not much different from 36.
And, "a platoon of RM" is not always onboard. You can see in many twitter images. HMS Forth does (army), HMS Medway carries several for HDHR in summer, HMS Trent "sometimes" carries marines, and HMS Tamar and Spey, I've never seen them? No always.

But, if you include the 50-more soldiers as her crew, yes, adding two 8xLMM turret is doable, no objection. Note that, the moment they disembark, the OPV will lose its capability to operate LMMs. For me, carrying 3x LMM turret operated by them will be a good "add-on" in a bit higher threat region. After landing, the 3x LMM turret can be also landed with the soldiers for their air-defense. Not bad.
Quote
The Batch 2 ships for the Royal Navy include some 29 modifications and enhancements over the Amazonas-class corvette built by BAE Systems for the Brazilian Navy.[35] The Royal Navy ships are built to more stringent naval standards, with features such as magazine protection, improved hull integrity and fire safety modifications, as well as greater redundancy.
Yes, I knew it. And I think it is to "enable" smaller crew. That's it.
the 40mm and LMM mounts can be operated by 1 man each = 3 from the ops room and the Crew is 45 for a B2
the current 30mm and small arms take 6 all stood outside in harms way

BB85
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by BB85 »

Is the current 30mm cannon not remotely operated? I know they have a chair and control panel attached to the side, but I'm sure I have seen them swivel and conduct test firings with an empty chair on online video's.
Some of the newer guns don't even have the chair at all, but that doesn't mean the older cannon needs to be manned at all times.

Caribbean
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Caribbean »

BB85 wrote: 17 Jan 2023, 13:16 Is the current 30mm cannon not remotely operated? I know they have a chair and control panel attached to the side, but I'm sure I have seen them swivel and conduct test firings with an empty chair on online video's.
Some of the newer guns don't even have the chair at all, but that doesn't mean the older cannon needs to be manned at all times.
The DS30M is remote controlled with optional reversionary controls. I think the DS30B is manual only and is mainly used on RFA vessels. They also used to be used on the Nuclear Transport fleet, but it looks like they have been removed in recent years.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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