UK Defence Forum

So the next Battle of the Falklands could be Gowind OPV vs River B2

Lord Jim wrote:So the next Battle of the Falklands could be Gowind OPV vs River B2

Playing Monty Python insults over a loudspeaker

Lord Jim wrote:So the next Battle of the Falklands could be Gowind OPV vs River B2

Fighting a "cod war at south", may be

Nonetheless, River B1.5 or B2 being there is important. There is a big big EEZ there.

On the other hand, role of APT-S will be changing from a standing task to a simply good-will visit once a year for the nations around South Atlantic. (As you know, APT-S has been gapped for a long time, already).

Argentina seeks IMF aid.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44047113

Argentina orders OPVs from France

http://www.janes.com/article/81368/arge ... rom-france

Victor Barreira, Istanbul - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
27 June 2018

Argentina signed a EUR280 million (USD324 million) contract on 22 June to acquire four offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) from France, an Argentine Navy high-ranking source has told Jane’s .

The contract signed by the Navy Material General Directorate (DGMM) and French shipbuilder Naval Group is in accordance with a government-to-government agreement resulting from an international tender, the source said.

The contract includes the ship FS L'Adroit (P725), which was self-funded by Naval Group and has been serving with the French Navy since 2011. Delivery of the ship to Argentina is planned for 2019. Three OPV-87 vessels, which are 87 m long and displace 1,650 tons, are also part of the deal, with two to be delivered in 2021 and one in 2022.

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Argentine : Naval Group a enfin signé un contrat pour la vente de quatre patrouilleurs

https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-fi ... 83310.html

chinook88 wrote:The contract includes the ship FS L'Adroit (P725), which was self-funded by Naval Group and has been serving with the French Navy since 2011.

A long export promotion (incl. world tours). Manned by the MN - at least they keep to their word: join the Navy and see the world

Together with the Malvinas-class corvettes, I think that this is an Argentine naval modernisation that the UK can be quite content with.

The four new OPV's are known collectively as the Cisne class

I still think we should have sold them our River batch 1s and Clyde. Seriously...
Or perhaps did it via Brazil to make it more politically swallowable

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Argentina considers resuming nuclear submarine project

http://www.janes.com/article/81584/arge ... ne-project

Santiago Rivas - Jane's Navy International
06 July 2018

Following the loss of Argentina’s TR 1700-class diesel-electric submarine (SSK) ARA San Juan in November 2017, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) is considering restarting construction of sister vessel ARA Santa Fe and competing it as a nuclear variant, the Argentine Congress was informed on 3 July.

San Juan was one of two German-built TR 1700 submarines delivered in the 1980s that formed the core of the Argentine submarine force. The second boat, ARA Santa Cruz , is currently undergoing an extended refit that is expected to be completed in late 2019/early 2020.

Construction on third boat Santa Fe began in the 1980s but was suspended in the early 1990s when it was 70% complete.

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Evalúa el Gobierno la construcción de un submarino nuclear
https://www.lanacion.com.ar/2150407-eva ... no-nuclear

Unless Argentina radically changes the alignment of where it get its military hardware form this will never happen. I cannot see either the US or France providing them with the technology to move forward and to try to do the whole thing in house ss most likely totally unaffordable. Like many announcements over the past few years, what the Argentinians would like and what they can afford are usually miles apart.

This is a sign of the Argentine disorder in defense. A populist project by politicians of past governments. It is impossible / very unlikely for political and technical reasons.

Delirious and irresponsible to let people like that play with nuclear material.

chinook88 wrote:the Ministry of Defence (MoD) is considering restarting construction of sister vessel ARA Santa Fe and competing it as a nuclear variant, the Argentine Congress was informed on 3 July.

From the angle of what needs to be committed to the defence of the Falklands, this is splendid news... what a waste of money
- however, at some point it was a joint project with Brazil (who are working on theirs)

Is it even possible? If you've done 70% of construction surely deciding to change the powerplant is going to be a right b'stard and they're not talking swopping one diesel engine for another, its diesel for nuke

On the very small chance they did launch the sub as an SSN it would be a damn sight louder than the diesel powered version.

Meh, just Argentinean wet dreams and fantasies. They can't operate their diesel boats safely, but they of course can nuclear?

I suppose it could all be part of a plan to irradiate the fishing grounds around the Falklands by sailing a poorly built SSN near them and having a melt down.

Argentina can proceed with their own SSN again as the IMF has committed more than it ever did to Greece (on its own behalf) - and this time without conditions attached.

To put the sum in perspective it is roughly the same as
"The IMF's financial resources are generated through IMF member country quotas, or subscriptions, that are based broadly on the size of each country's economy. The United States is the biggest contributor with a 17.09 percent stake worth roughly $54 billion."
- NAB (fresh resources that have been in works forever; the US will eventually contribute twice the above sum... but only if members refrain from laughing if and when President Trump ever gets to address them) may, or may not be mobilised

The gist with this speedy action is of course that by the time Erdogan swallows his pomposity and comes with a cap in hand... the answer will be: Sorry, a bit late. Our resources are by now fully committed
- Turkey's currency has been doing slightly better than Argentina's: only down by 40% (not 50%)

The Argentine shipyards do not have the financial or technological capabilities for a project of such magnitude, they still have two TR-1700 unfinished. With an economy that is entitled to a financial default, restructurings are announced on defense issues and cuts in investments are expected.
Some suggested the possibility of acquiring second-hand submarines from Brazil, I do not know if that is possible because even the Brazilian submarine program {PROSUB}, which already suffers delays and cost overruns, will suffer cuts in its budget.

AT 800 METERS OF DEPTH
Submarine ARA San Juan: they found the submarine lost a year ago

A 800 METROS DE PROFUNDIDAD
Submarino ARA San Juan: encontraron el submarino perdido hace un año



https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/confirm ... 8JevB.html

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They found the submarine ARA San Juan a year after its disappearance
This is how Infobae assured the highest authorities of the Argentine Navy. The discovery occurred 800 meters deep, about 500 kilometers from Comodoro Rivadavia

Encontraron el submarino ARA San Juan a un año de su desaparición
Así se lo aseguraron a Infobae las máximas autoridades de la Armada Argentina. El hallazgo se produjo a 800 metros de profundidad, a unos 500 kilómetros de Comodoro Rivadavia



https://www.infobae.com/sociedad/2018/1 ... -san-juan/

Hope they can find out what went wrong and that their families can find some peace.

reference

The moment they find the ARA San Juan

I'm glad to see that someting is moving in Argentina- DCN will build 4 OPV-s for their Navy:

https://navaltoday.com/2019/02/15/franc ... -contract/

abc123 wrote:I'm glad to see that someting is moving in Argentina

It was meant to be something else (when the IMF gave them $51 bn ); how do you reconcile your statement with rationale for those monies?
"The Argentine authorities’ economic plan backed by the SBA aims to strengthen the country’s economy by restoring market confidence via a consistent macroeconomic program that lessens financing needs, puts Argentina’s public debt on a firm downward trajectory, and strengthens the plan to reduce inflation by setting more realistic inflation targets and reinforcing the independence of the central bank. Importantly, the plan includes steps to protect society’s most vulnerable by maintaining social spending and, if social conditions were to deteriorate, by providing room for greater spending on Argentina’s social safety net."

And what would $ 51 bn make?
- by coincidence: 38.62 bn GBP... does that number ring a bell?