UK Defence Forum

Jake1992 wrote:This is one big reason why western nations need to start taking defence a lot more seriously.

Another big reason is lack of protection of Western IP rights, and data leaks from unprotected company servers.

bobp wrote:

Jake1992 wrote:This is one big reason why western nations need to start taking defence a lot more seriously.

Another big reason is lack of protection of Western IP rights, and data leaks from unprotected company servers.

It’s due to the fact that since the end of the Cold War the west hasn’t faced a real “peer” threat so hasn’t invested like it should, it actually cut cut cut all you have to do is look at UK defence spend mid 90 to today, we’ve gone from 3-3.5% of GDP to around 1.7% when measured in the same way.

It is worrying that China can actually play "Fantasy Fleets", for real!!

On the positive side, to keep up with the rate the fleet is expanding China must be promoting some very green officers in to command roles.

Quantity and quality? They bought and cloned a 40 year-old Soviet-era aircraft carrier....

SKB wrote:Quantity and quality? They bought and cloned a 40 year-old Soviet-era aircraft carrier....

Yes but now meant to be building there own 80k odd CAT and Trap carrier. They’ve also just built and launched there own copy of a USN wasp class.

Now the build standard of these is who knows but design wise the quality seems to be catching up with the quantity. This is why our selves and other western nation need start taking defence seriously now and not in 10 years time when it could put us in a very bad place.

Jake1992 wrote:They’ve also just built and launched there own copy of a USN wasp class.

A Ford (not a T-Ford, either) next? http://www.andrewerickson.com/wp-conten ... 2/18-1.jpg
- did someone leave the desings on a server, carelessly

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

Jake1992 wrote:They’ve also just built and launched there own copy of a USN wasp class.

A Ford (not a T-Ford, either) next? http://www.andrewerickson.com/wp-conten ... 2/18-1.jpg
- did someone leave the desings on a server, carelessly

That is a true copy of a Ford class, but I didn’t this was the one their building now. From what Iv read their plan is to have 6 carriers the 2 they’ve got now to 80k odd vessels cat and Trap conventional powered and then 2 100k plus nuke powered

There was a model display, at a naval exhibition, of what they propose from 1-6 and it did end up with the Ford copies
- propose the operational word (so lining up a copy is an easy way to express the aspiration)

I've posted it here, but for now could not find it again.

An abridged version of yesterdays 70th anniversary parade;

The Chinese seem to copy anything and everything developed by other nations that they think might be useful. The Gyrocopters were a surprise!

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science ... submarines
This article suggests rather than just copying China is researching serioucly sateliite laser detection of submarines , as to how many nations presently have a degree of submarine detection in their satellites is of course unknown

China’s 2nd Aircraft Carrier Type 002 ‘Shandong’ Commissioned with PLAN

China’s first domestically built aircraft carrier, "Shandong" (penant number 17), was delivered and commissioned today in to the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN or Chinese navy) in Sanya, South China’s Hainan Province.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... with-plan/

Thanks for the info, always amazed to see how the Chinese navy is progressing, really interested to hear any thing on their next carrier which is a CATOBAR, 80k tonnes? read somewhere a 2021 or 24 launch? but they are (understandably ) very secretive....not sure if the triple cat carrier picture that got leaked a while back is going to be accurate but does look good.

I think their plan is for three and four to be conventional CATOBAR Carriers and five and six larger nuclear powered vessels. Having two Carrier Groups in the South China Sea at any one time and possibly a third, with their strong escort force, will be a challenge to the USN of the likes they have never faced since WWII

Lord Jim wrote:and possibly a third, with their strong escort force, will be a challenge to the USN of the likes they have never faced since WWII

Hence India is in a hurry to get their 20-30 yr old "3 carrier" force to become a reality.

Lord Jim wrote:I think their plan is for three and four to be conventional CATOBAR Carriers and five and six larger nuclear powered vessels. Having two Carrier Groups in the South China Sea at any one time and possibly a third, with their strong escort force, will be a challenge to the USN of the likes they have never faced since WWII

Some every good points however the 2 new QE class and the French carrier will allow the US to deploy another carrier to the Pacific

Also a goo d point, but that also mean the UK and French Carriers will have to concentrate their operations in the North Atlantic and possibly the Med, which for the UK at least goes against the political aspiration of global operations.

well it can be flipped as a British or French carrier group in the Indo-Pacific means one less US carrier needs to be.

Lord Jim wrote:the UK and French Carriers will have to concentrate their operations in the North Atlantic and possibly the Med,

Tempest414 wrote:can be flipped as a British or French carrier group in the Indo-Pacific means one less US carrier needs to be

I'm with the latter... it would be a stupid Gvmnt (ours, or 'federated') to do a strike mission in the Med
... an utter failure (did we not take the hallusinating madman out, yet?)

I would of thought it would be latter as well for a uk or CdeG east of suez, as another US carrier in the pacific might poke the paper tiger ( or not paper anymore !!! ) more than necessary

Actually quite surprised the new carrier hasn't got one or two waist cats (along with the bow ramp to make it a hybrid) so they could get to grips with at sea cat launches until their first CATOBAR carrier launches.

Massive fire in the well deck of the new amphibious 075 warship tied up at dock pictures show large amount of smoke coming from this ship

seaspear wrote:Massive fire in the well deck of the new amphibious 075 warship tied up at dock pictures show large amount of smoke coming from this ship

Pictures, please?

From Warzone
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... sault-ship

Damage looks pretty extensive but I doubt the ship will be a write-off. Far too much reputational capital in being China's first domestically designed flat top to scrap.

The difficulties encountered by Russia, India and now even China show just how difficult building large naval vessels can be. Makes the building of the QEC look ever more impressive.

Well all three countries do not have the best "Health and Safety" regulations or enforcement so fires breaking out with all that welding etc. going on is not surprising.