UK Defence Forum

First look at the FDI and FDI HN frigates taking shape:

Submarines And Carriers? Upcoming French Deployments To The Pacific

The French Navy (Marine Nationale) is planning to send several high-end assets to the Indo-Pacific in the coming years. These would include nuclear attack submarines (SSN), an air defense frigate, a landing helicopter docks (LHD) and even, possibly, the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... e-pacific/

That is going to end up being a pretty big boat, maybe similar in size to the USN's Kittyhawk class conventional carriers.

SKB wrote: ↑19 Oct 2022, 03:00

Any word on how many they will build ? The advantage to the French approach is that they can operate a more diverse set of assets than the QE class of carriers can do. They will have to deal with nuclear decomissioning in the future - but then we have that same issues with our subs so not material to the UK had we gone down the nuclear route.

The other, is of course will they adopt an EMALs system aswell.

TheLoneRanger wrote: ↑19 Oct 2022, 09:49 ny word on how many they will build ? The advantage to the French approach is that they can operate a more diverse set of assets than the QE class of carriers can do. They will have to deal with nuclear decomissioning in the future - but then we have that same issues with our subs so not material to the UK had we gone down the nuclear route.

The other, is of course will they adopt an EMALs system aswell.

Physically more diverse options but will always be politically constrained in France. Hence, they'll gain little from it.

Looks cracking tbh in my humble opinion,they might go for a 2 build class after ongoing events but will be a long drawn out process to get the 2 built but the western world needs them to build 2 definitely

RunningStrong wrote: ↑19 Oct 2022, 10:41 Physically more diverse options but will always be politically constrained in France. Hence, they'll gain little from it.

Realistically there are 2 catobar aircraft that can be operated from it. There are a grand total of 5 Catobar aircraft in production. Rafale, F/A-18E/F, F-35C, E/A-18G and E-2D Hawkeye. The first 3 of those aircraft do exactly the same job, strike fighter, so you'd only pick one. E/A-18G is realistically only of interest to the USN with its immense resources. And SuperHornet variants will be out of production in the next couple of years based on US plans.

So really you're talking about 2 catobar aircraft available to the French...Rafale and E-2D. Sure SCAF may arrive in the future, but the partners were talking about 2050 being more realistic recently.

MQ-25 will arrive for the USN at some point, but its not clear if the French have the budget for that (I'd argue they don't given their limited plans for E-2D purchases) or an equivalent.

It's noticeable they've avoided the desire to add lots of unmanned platforms which they had on earlier CGI and any from the SCAF programme. This might be a more realistic position to take.

Timmymagic wrote: ↑19 Oct 2022, 13:34

RunningStrong wrote: ↑19 Oct 2022, 10:41 Physically more diverse options but will always be politically constrained in France. Hence, they'll gain little from it.

Realistically there are 2 catobar aircraft that can be operated from it. There are a grand total of 5 Catobar aircraft in production. Rafale, F/A-18E/F, F-35C, E/A-18G and E-2D Hawkeye. The first 3 of those aircraft do exactly the same job, strike fighter, so you'd only pick one. E/A-18G is realistically only of interest to the USN with its immense resources. And SuperHornet variants will be out of production in the next couple of years based on US plans.

So really you're talking about 2 catobar aircraft available to the French...Rafale and E-2D. Sure SCAF may arrive in the future, but the partners were talking about 2050 being more realistic recently.

MQ-25 will arrive for the USN at some point, but its not clear if the French have the budget for that (I'd argue they don't given their limited plans for E-2D purchases) or an equivalent.

It's noticeable they've avoided the desire to add lots of unmanned platforms which they had on earlier CGI and any from the SCAF programme. This might be a more realistic position to take.

But the obvious point being that this carrier will likely have a 25-40 year operating life. And there will likely be several other options in that time.

inch wrote: ↑19 Oct 2022, 11:32 Looks cracking tbh in my humble opinion,they might go for a 2 build class after ongoing events but will be a long drawn out process to get the 2 built but the western world needs them to build 2 definitely

Indeed. With USN concentrating more on China and distributing their CVN accordingly, NATO need 1 carrier in Atlantic (most probably UK) and another in Med (ideally French).

If the French had two carriers, they could afford to have one in Indo Pacific more often, where French have more overseas Territories.

RunningStrong wrote: ↑19 Oct 2022, 13:45 But the obvious point being that this carrier will likely have a 25-40 year operating life. And there will likely be several other options in that time.

NGAD will replace F/A-18 variants and SCAF will replace Rafale. There might be an unmanned combat UCAV from the US but I suspect thats it. So the numbers really won't go up by more than 1. The days of there bing 8 or 9 catobar capable aircraft to pick from are long gone.

Has anyone told the Germans that the FCAS will be carrier borne too

I note that much like the CDG (R91), there is a paucity of Non “Operationally restrictive Spots”. I counted just 12! A wonderful design indeed ??? I don’t think. The design needs a third Deck-Edge “Lift” as well (Port side, Aft), if further operational restrictions are to be avoided.

Just my imagination or is the island further back than usual?

Probably following the same logic, the USN did when they accepted the design for the Ford class, freeing space on the flight deck and improving visibility during air operations. Funding will be an issue, the CdG was supposed to be part of a two ship class and it was funded during the Cold War mainly. Even with two, they are likely to only have one available at any one time. With just CdG at present there has been lengthy period where they have had no carrier available due to planned refits.

Impressive...

what is a "free gate" ?! ^

My coverage of "PANG" (as the Americans call it) on day 1 at Euronaval:



And my Story:

Euronaval 2022: Latest PANG Aircraft Carrier Design Breaks Cover
https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/eu ... aks-cover/

​Aboard Air Defense FREMM LORRAINE

Brief presentation of the FREMM DA (Air Defense) LORRAINE (D657), the 8th and final FREMM Frigate built by Naval Group for the French Navy (Marine Nationale).

Naval News had the rare chance to embark on LORRAINE as the vessel departed the Naval Group shipyard in Lorient for the last time. The frigate will be formally delivered to the French Navy in mid-November 2022. At the shipyard, construction is ongoing for two Gowind corvettes for the UAE Navy as well as FDI frigates for France and Greece.






​

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... -its-army/

STUTTGART, Germany – France’s military-procurement office has qualified the patrol variant of its new VBMR-L Serval multirole light armored vehicle, and expects to receive about one-fifth of its planned Serval deliveries by the end of the year, a defense official said Thursday.

The new models of the VBMR-L, the third new vehicle developed under the Ministry of Defense’s Scorpion program to modernize the Army’s fighting vehicles and tech, were qualified by the Direction Generale de l’Armement (DGA) on Nov. 10, Vice Admiral Christophe Lucas, deputy director general for international relations and strategy for the ministry, said during a press briefing. The eight armored patrol sub-variants include: infantry; engineering; mortar 81; mortar 120; command post; medium-range missile; very short-range ground-to-air; and supply, he added.

The Army’s 11th Parachute Brigade will be among the first troops to receive the rides, alongside the 27th Mountain Infantry Brigade, he noted.

The 4x4 armored vehicle weighs between 15 to 17 tonnes (about 33,000 to 37,480 pounds) depending on its load. It will include all of the Scorpion family of vehicles’ common equipment, including sensors and the Scorpion Combat Information System (SICS), a new communications and battlefield management system for sharing tactical information with other Scorpion vehicles. It will be capable of transporting up to eight troops as well as two crew members. France expects to procure 1,872 Griffons – including 54 MEPACs – 978 Servals, and 300 Jaguars by 2030.