UK Defence Forum

France looking at HIMARS

Scimitar54 wrote: ↑19 Oct 2022, 21:04 I note that much like the CDG (R91), there is a paucity of Non “Operationally restrictive Spots”. I counted just 12! A wonderful design indeed ??? I don’t think. The design needs a third Deck-Edge “Lift” as well (Port side, Aft), if further operational restrictions are to be avoided.

This.
Also, do you think that SCAF is a bit large for even a 70 000 t carrier like this?

Discover the French Navy's New OPV for the Indo-Pacific

Presentation of the first POM (Patrouilleur Outre-Mer or Offshore Patrol Vessel - OPV - for the overseas territories), the "Auguste Bénébig", by its commander. This new French Navy (Marine Nationale) vessel will be based in Noumea, New Caledonia, in the Southern Pacific Ocean.

SKB wrote: ↑19 Oct 2022, 03:00

So, has the new carrier actually been confirmed and ordered?

It's looks like a hugely expensive undertaking and I have no doubt it will be another lone Carrier, no chance the French defence budget could afford to build two.

Interesting that the models of the Franco German fighter appear to show it 'approximately' the same size as the Rafael.

Cracking looking carrier, would the RN have liked one of these over a 2 QE class ships ,not sure in heart of hearts what they would choose tbh ,yes 2 better than one and I quess more availability,and nuclear technicians to man and huge scrapping costs etc etc etc , but after saying all that will the RN look across the channel and think we should have done one of those?

If look at the first enlarged pic and count along the line of Rafale's to No 8 which is opposite the first 5th gen jet on the left of the picture it looks to me that the 5th gen jet is a 3rd bigger than the Rafale

Also they could run CdG until 2045 which would make her 45 years old when we think USS Nimitz is 48 years old this year the French could have 2 carriers for 20 years and then replace CdG in 2045

inch wrote: ↑05 Feb 2023, 10:46 Cracking looking carrier, would the RN have liked one of these over a 2 QE class ships ,not sure in heart of hearts what they would choose tbh ,yes 2 better than one and I quess more availability,and nuclear technicians to man and huge scrapping costs etc etc etc , but after saying all that will the RN look across the channel and think we should have done one of those?

I don't think so both ships will have a max strike wing of 36 5 gen jets and max wartime load out of 70 aircraft the QE's are very good ships there biggest problem is there lower AEW capability

Tempest414 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2023, 10:52 If look at the first enlarged pic and count along the line of Rafale's to No 8 which is opposite the first 5th gen jet on the left of the picture it looks to me that the 5th gen jet is a 3rd bigger than the Rafale

Also they could run CdG until 2045 which would make her 45 years old when we think USS Nimitz is 48 years old this year the French could have 2 carriers for 20 years and then replace CdG in 2045

Yes I also thought they may get PANG CVN operational then keep CdeG going with a few rafael for use when PANG needs down time until they budget for a 2nd carrier....will b great to see her in service, has any names been mentioned ?

OCCAR Signs Contract to Launch a Global Production of SAMP/T NG Systems
The development of SAMP/T NG system was launched in cooperation between France and Italy in March 2021. This system implements 2 new-generation radars able to track future threats at medium range (the Kronos Grand Mobile High Power of Leonardo for Italy and the Ground Fire 300 of Thales for France) and a modern engagement module resulting from a fruitful cooperation between THALES and MBDA Italy.

The British Army/RAF has no medium/long range AA/SR-BMD system, would i be correct in thinking the old Bloodhound aand Thunderbird were the last time UK had a semi-similar capability, Bloodhound retired in 1990, Thunderbird 1977. Ukraine showing up how necessary this type of defence system is, whether UK needs to spend the £billions for equivalent system open to question, was talk of MoD spending half a billion plus on Lockheed BMD radar and Command and Battle Management and Communications equipment last March, though no missiles were mentioned.

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/occar ... e-systems/

NickC wrote: ↑07 Feb 2023, 13:33

OCCAR Signs Contract to Launch a Global Production of SAMP/T NG Systems
The development of SAMP/T NG system was launched in cooperation between France and Italy in March 2021. This system implements 2 new-generation radars able to track future threats at medium range (the Kronos Grand Mobile High Power of Leonardo for Italy and the Ground Fire 300 of Thales for France) and a modern engagement module resulting from a fruitful cooperation between THALES and MBDA Italy.

The British Army/RAF has no medium/long range AA/SR-BMD system, would i be correct in thinking the old Bloodhound aand Thunderbird were the last time UK had a semi-similar capability, Bloodhound retired in 1990, Thunderbird 1977. Ukraine showing up how necessary this type of defence system is, whether UK needs to spend the £billions for equivalent system open to question, was talk of MoD spending half a billion plus on Lockheed BMD radar and Command and Battle Management and Communications equipment last March, though no missiles were mentioned.

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/occar ... e-systems/

Personally I do think we need to purchase a samp t long range air defence system or a much longer ranged Camm missile. I would have it in the RAF or a joint unit but I would like to see a 2 sqn force with each sqn consisting of 3 flights with 4 launcher vehicles in each. One for samp/t and one for the coming ground launched very long range hypersonic missile system. I would make sure it is connected into the strategic ISR force but I think it is probably unaffordable without cutting something else but we need to be more robust in defence.

Yes I totally agree with most on here ,UK should have more BMD systems ,tanks , submarines etc etc but we will never get these with PM and treasury leaders who absolutely know nothing about defence, never thought about defence in their lives ,it's a foreign subject to them ,they know about money and ways of making it or saving it ,and civil service who for 40 yrs are used to advising cutting, ,so shame we got a war on and we need upgrading fast but just like Cameron,are totally not interested in defence,

inch wrote: ↑07 Feb 2023, 15:03 Yes I totally agree with most on here ,UK should have more BMD systems ,tanks , submarines etc etc but we will never get these with PM and treasury leaders who absolutely know nothing about defence, never thought about defence in their lives ,it's a foreign subject to them ,they know about money and ways of making it or saving it ,and civil service who for 40 yrs are used to advising cutting, ,so shame we got a war on and we need upgrading fast but just like Cameron,are totally not interested in defence,

To a point but the services have not helped themselves very poor capital allocation decisions by seniors in uniform and out since the end of the Cold War. We spend £48 billion pounds every year on defence it’s a vast sum an embarrassment of riches to many others.

It all come down to what do you wish to prioritise.

As and example Japans economy and population is twice the size of ours Germany a 1/3 larger, Americas population 5x and economy 8x. Ultimately we spend a comparable and indeed larger amount than most. If we’re are all spending around 2-2.5% of gdp then we will have the smallest budget in cash terms by definition. So a growing economy will grow the budget in cash terms we have stagnated since 2008.

Maybe the only nation we can realisticaly compare ourselves is france as they have a SSN & SSBN program as the seem to take up a lot of money....

This article from Warzone provides some simulation footage of the PA-NG in operation , I am not sure if it will carry helicopters with an anti submarine role
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/t ... -look-like

Its weather they get there the UK has great CGI videos of the QE's with 30+ jets operating off them just as a 1 for 1 on CdG's last quick run around the Med she carried 8 Rafale's

Perhaps its early but there seems some confusion over the tonnage of the carrier one article will state 75 thousand another 82 Tonnes
https://www.naval-technology.com/projec ... tion-pang/
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... transition
Its interesting that a V.L.S has been included for Aster
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/french-navy- ... n-detailed

Nice looking ship, will be interesting what will be the final (affordable) outcome. Having only one means a part time capability though.

If the EU is serious about an EU defence force and strategic autonomy, then with funding from Germany, Italy and Spain they should be looking at a 2nd (probably with joint crew / assets, replacing any existing light carriers).

Repulse wrote: ↑26 Feb 2023, 09:46 Nice looking ship, will be interesting what will be the final (affordable) outcome. Having only one means a part time capability though.

If the EU is serious about an EU defence force and strategic autonomy, then with funding from Germany, Italy and Spain they should be looking at a 2nd (probably with joint crew / assets, replacing any existing light carriers).

Maybe the EU has already started to count British Assets as their own now ? I mean - how long before the UK surrenders to some EU defence treaty nonsense ?

The RN will never be integrated like the others. Our strategic aims will be aligned to the US for a while yet.

The French could operate CdG until 2045/ 2050 giving them 2 carriers for 10 to 15 years before starting a second new carrier

Repulse wrote: ↑26 Feb 2023, 09:46 Nice looking ship, will be interesting what will be the final (affordable) outcome. Having only one means a part time capability though.

If the EU is serious about an EU defence force and strategic autonomy, then with funding from Germany, Italy and Spain they should be looking at a 2nd (probably with joint crew / assets, replacing any existing light carriers).

Then germany can buy some carrier versions of the next EU fighter jet for eu naval force.....

An exclusive tour aboard the French Navy's future supply vessel (BRF)

xav wrote: ↑26 Mar 2023, 16:34 An exclusive tour aboard the French Navy's future supply vessel (BRF)

Quite impressive good to have for long deployments.

French defence budget at around 2% of there gdp. A big increase in the maintenance budget

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... arliament/

A report issued Monday by the French Ministry of Defense detailed the following planned investments:
€5 billion for intelligence and counterintelligence efforts;

€13 billion for overseas capabilities and initiatives;

€5 billion for “drones,” to include unmanned systems and remotely operated munitions, as well as development on the Eurodrone medium-altitude, long-endurance UAV in development by Airbus for France, Spain, Germany.

€5 billion for surface-to-air defense capabilities;

€16 billion for munitions, including the modernization of long-range anti-ship missiles, as well as F321 heavy torpedoes and new surface-to-air and air-to-air interceptors (MBDA’s Aster-MICA and METEOR families, respectively);

€49 billion for maintenance and conditional operations, a 49% increase over the previous LPM;

€10 billion for innovative technology investments, to include directed energy technology, swarming drones, and robotic capabilities;

€6 billion for the space domain;

€4 billion for cyber defense.