UK Defence Forum

Damen Details Dutch Frigates Proposal For Hellenic Navy

Dutch shipbuilder Damen is proposing a new design for the Hellenic Navy frigate requirement. The brand-new SIGMA 11515 Frigates are part of a wider package offer by Damen in partnership with Thales Nederland, with support of the government of The Netherlands.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... enic-navy/

Wondering if uk gov offering a couple of type 23 immediately as looking likely in review to be retired with the arrowhead 140 offer ?

inch wrote:Wondering if uk gov offering a couple of type 23 immediately as looking likely in review to be retired with the arrowhead 140 offer ?

See if they fancy some cheap Typhoons in the deal as well

Dahedd wrote:

inch wrote:Wondering if uk gov offering a couple of type 23 immediately as looking likely in review to be retired with the arrowhead 140 offer ?

See if they fancy some cheap Typhoons in the deal as well

They allready got Rafales.

Here Is Babcock’s Frigate Proposal For The Hellenic Navy

British shipbuilder Babcock is proposing its Arrowhead 140 design for the Hellenic Navy frigate requirement. The vessels, based on the future Type 31 frigate of the Royal Navy, are part of a wider package offer by the shipbuilder which partnered with Thales UK, and is supported by the British government.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... enic-navy/

Our coverage of DEFEA 2021

Would teh Greeks be happy with a couple of T-23s that have been worked hard? How much of an overhaul would Babcock have to agree to do to make the truly acceptable? The Italian offer of lending a couple of their nearly new FREMM class must be more appealing, or at least I assume it will only be a loan, freeing up funds in their naval budget for other ting during that time.

As much as all on here would dearly love the Greeks to get t31 ,it will not happen very unfortunately ,think the euro card will come into it and the other governments will do arm twisting saying buy from a European choice definitely not from Brexit uk , think the optics will just be too much for the likes of France or Germany that they will put a kybosh on t31 idea , although might have been a cheaper option or more ships for the same money ,shame tbh but I think I will be right in my thinking ,as said before could be France with all support they gave/ giving over turkey ,and we not in that particular game tbh

Video form the DEFEA 2021 exhibition in Athens. Some interesting new platforms on display but Nexter's upgraded VBCI caught my attention. I feel this really rubs the UK's nose in it as again they are displaying a working turret that includes not only the CTA40 cannon, but integral ATGWs and a RWS. I think this is the third turret using the CTA40 Nexter have shown to the public whereas we seem to have had significant difficulties with the two turrets we wished for, though LM has ironed out nearly all of these though this took longer than was initially anticipated, adding to the delay of the relevant programmes.

If we wanted to still use the CTA40 on either an IFV, wheeled or tracked to replace Warrior, and a recce vehicle if Ajax was canned, though this is unlikely, it may make sense just to use one of the Nexter Turrets, bite the bullet on not being made in teh UK and at least give the Army the platforms with the necessary firepower to do the jobs it will need them to do.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ekathi ... -navy/amp/

It seems that the Greece will buy 3 Belharra frigates and 3 Gowind 2500 corvettes from France

More comprehensive link from Naval News

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... enic-navy/

tbh they were going to have a better shot than we were

Probably just as well, couldn't stand another crying hissy fit from the French lol,was never going to be t31 tbh from a bad boy Brexit uk and especially after aukus ,plus french pressure and support over turkey ,to be expected really

The FDI is the total opposite to the T-31 in its design. It has more capabilities but the hull is nearly maxed out due to its size and the number of systems installed. The T-31 has very limited capabilities but as a substantial unused hull space and weight allowance, so the design can be fitted with substantially more capable weapon systems should this be required.

As far as the French bid goes, providing the Hellenic Navy with six new warship for their budget must be a very tempting offer and as the article states Greece has a close relationship with France who have backed them against Turkeys recent behaviour. personally I think the FREMM offer from Italy would have given them more flexible and capable warships with growth potential.

Fair play to France, not only on winning the bid but getting 6 hulls, not 4, all built in France to boot. The UK could learn a thing or two...

dmereifield wrote:Fair play to France, not only on winning the bid but getting 6 hulls, not 4, all built in France to boot. The UK could learn a thing or two...

The FDI will be built in France, the Gowind's are (apparently) to be built in Greece.

It's worth noting that this arrangement is completely at odds with the requirement that the other builders were asked to follow, that of wholly Greek build.

But ultimately this is political, France has stepped up to the plate and backed Greece against Turkey over the last few years. Ultimately that political investment has paid off in a ship building contract.

Timmymagic wrote:

dmereifield wrote:Fair play to France, not only on winning the bid but getting 6 hulls, not 4, all built in France to boot. The UK could learn a thing or two...

The FDI will be built in France, the Gowind's are (apparently) to be built in Greece.

It's worth noting that this arrangement is completely at odds with the requirement that the other builders were asked to follow, that of wholly Greek build.

But ultimately this is political, France has stepped up to the plate and backed Greece against Turkey over the last few years. Ultimately that political investment has paid off in a ship building contract.

Well at least the Greek ship yards get something. Still a decent coup for the French. No point complaining about it not meeting the original requirements, the other bidders could have offered the same/similar in addition to the bid that met the RFI (a coordinated, HMG backed, UK bid could have offered 3 T31 and 3 uparmed River B3/Ukrainian missile boat etc). French industry benefits again from strategic support from the French Government.

The UK government should be commended for a step-change in approach as demonstrated with the Ukrainin order - providing the loan and wider strategic and military support. But the French would have leveraged that support and the >£1 billion loan to get more than 1 hull (maybe 2, if the UK is lucky) built in France. The French aren't perfect of course, but there is much we can learn in order to better support our own defence industries

One wonders if event could develop in a similar way to the Australian Sub programme. France and Naval Group made many promises to win that contract and then things began to fall apart over time. I am sure this programme will be under far greater scrutiny as a result of how things went down under, so France will have to deliver the goods.

As if Greece wasn't the NATO country most keenly feeling the climate crisis effects and the aftershocks of the Financial Crisis - add the pressures from game-playing with refugee pawns and illegal migrants by a certain Erdogan from across the border
... and it is a small wonder how staunchly they can keep up the defence-related efforts.

One can make up one's own mind about the contributing factors to the on-going fiscal constraints, but the fire-and-hire policies burst out into the open when "Police clashed in Athens Friday with protesting firefighters demanding job contracts in the wake of massive wildfires.[...] police fired teargas and water cannon to disperse the demonstrators.

The protesters, wearing their firefighting uniforms, blocked traffic outside the newly-created Climate Crisis and Civil Protection Ministry"

Does Greece still see Turkey as its greatest threat? If so and given Turkey's popularity with the rest of NATO and Europe, Greece should be getting far more military aid, help with the cost of the F-16V programme for example, and maybe additional airframes modified to this standard from aircraft replaced by F-35s in other NATO members air forces. France already seems to be on this track selling both aircraft and warships at what ar effectively discount prices.

So, it would seem that the Hellenic Navy Future Frigate Programme is not necessarily a done deal:

The State Department on Dec. 10 announced it had approved a $2.5 billion sale for the modernization piece and had notified Congress about the potential deal. It separately approved a $6.9 billion sale for the four new frigates and submitted congressional notification for that as well.

Lockheed Martin and the U.S. Navy paired to offer one potential solution, in which the defense contractor would upgrade the MEKOs and sell a multi-mission frigate based off its Freedom-variant Littoral Combat Ship, dubbed the Hellenic Future Frigate, and the Navy would provide four decommissioned ships — potentially decommissioned LCSs or cruisers.

The State Department on Dec. 10 announced it had approved a $2.5 billion sale for the modernization piece and had notified Congress about the potential deal. It separately approved a $6.9 billion sale for the four new frigates and submitted congressional notification for that as well.

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2021/ ... ium=social

Oooh - that would be interesting if the US were to win the Greek deal. I’ll get the popcorn…

Looks like the Statue of liberty may be going back to france - he he

I don't get it , thought France had wrapped it up ,what's going on ?

Looking at the picture it seems they are offering the Constitution class or a version of it. AS we have seen with the down under submarine deal, things can change, and with large defence contracts being a premium these day the US is playing hard ball in areas european and especially French companies thought their own. Mind you , US offering if it is the Constitution class will have more potential as the French FDI whilst a good balanced design has little margin for growth. Greece buying a US design would also be the first time in decades the US has exported a naval platform to Europe.

First 6 Greek Rafale F-3R (4 single, 2 twin seat) were delivered to Tanagra Air Base on the 19th of Jan 2022, another batch are expected later this year with a 3rd batch arriving in 2023 - presumably the 6 arriving in 2023 will be the 6 new builds they ordered from the original 18.

https://theaviationist.com/2022/01/20/f ... -air-base/

The additional 6 announced on top of the 18 haven't had their delivery schedule announced yet. It's also been confirmed that all Rafale will be F-3R standard with RBE2 AESA and Meteor.