UK Defence Forum

A good find, especially the anti-surface dimension. FACs have not gotten any bigger, but their weapon delivery ranges have been extended (hence the corvette mention might mean that a Wildcat screen on its own will be insufficient).

Also a whiff of a mini-Nimrod debacle:
"Crowsnest, led by prime contractor Lockheed Martin, has been challenged by “three different integration problems in one,” senior Royal Navy officers told a conference in London in February.

“We were taking a system that had some original parts; others needed a firmware upgrade; and some have needed replacing entirely because of obsolescence,” one officer said. “It has been a tough ride"

bobp wrote:The wildcat will still be able to use its door mounted guns according to the Janes article.

It doesn’t say the missile wing and the door gun can be carried simultaneously.

https://www.janes.com/article/94747/wil ... g-unveiled

True nor can I see how a door mounted gun could function. This is the extract from Janes.....

The Sea Venom is not to formally enter service with the RN until January 2022, so the Wildcat will only be equipped with Martlet missiles and door guns, as well as BAE Stingray anti-submarine torpedoes and Mark 11 depth charges, during CSG21.

Timmymagic wrote:Don't think the pintle mounted M3M will fit with the wings attached

Is that different with the current weapons carrier? I don't remember ever seeing the gun and the carrier fitted at the same time.

Ron5 wrote:

Timmymagic wrote:Don't think the pintle mounted M3M will fit with the wings attached

Is that different with the current weapons carrier? I don't remember ever seeing the gun and the carrier fitted at the same time.

I think it's a case of one or the other ..

https://www.janes.com/article/94747/wil ... g-unveiled

Seem to recall from periodicals of the time that Westland looked into wings on a helicopter a few decades ago, before Wildcat was even thought of. I expect there's a slight overall aerodynamic advantage, but the big plus is probably commonality of the weapons carriers and hard points allowing logistics benefits and reduced turnaround times for the aircraft on deck.

J. Tattersall wrote:https://www.janes.com/article/94747/wil ... g-unveiled

Seem to recall from periodicals of the time that Westland looked into wings on a helicopter a few decades ago, before Wildcat was even thought of. I expect there's a slight overall aerodynamic advantage, but the big plus is probably commonality of the weapons carriers and hard points allowing logistics benefits and reduced turnaround times for the aircraft on deck.

I seem to remember an old concept pic of a Merlin with wings coming from the upper cabin just below the engines. Iirc the article spoke of enhanced speed, lift & better fuel efficiency.

Dahedd wrote:Iirc the article spoke of enhanced speed, lift & better fuel efficiency.

The two navy helos being different in one being for ASW (only?) and the other should have more (!) ASuW options to make up for the v high unit price that was paid upfront

Wasn't the Merlin with "Wings" a possible design to counter the size of Radar possibly to be used in the AEW role and also to increase its altitude and range to make it more effective?

It's being reported that Wildcat has fired Martlet for the first time from the Wildcat weapons wing, at a boat target off Wales (presumably Aberporth Firing Range).

Intriguingly its being reported that the missile used SAL AND Infrared...hopefully this isn't a press release mistake referring to the Wildcats E/O sensors and is referring to the seeker. If it is the seeker that is really big news as we've all been assuming SAL only initially. If its SAL and IIR its a massive increase in capability.



V. good picture thread in the below tweet thread, mentions that the RN and RM are still investigating cannon and 'heavy' weapons, which could mean Brimstone, CRV7 (or maybe even APKWS like the Apache fleet are looking at?). Cannon would presumably be the M230. I would like to see MG mounts on the tips of the wings, just GPMG would do, nothing ambitious or heavy like minigun, M3M or .338 guns.

Lord Jim wrote: to increase its altitude and range to make it more effective?

Osprey was seriously in the running, so yes, those were the numbers that needed to be bettered

Got to remember that while wings help in one part of the flight regime they will detract in others. Good for fwd flight extra weight in the hover.

SW1 wrote: Good for fwd flight extra weight in the hover.

ASW certainly involves quite a bit of hover, but is that the case for doing AEW duties?
- now with a mainly ASW fleet that can be tasked (roll-on & off with kit) for AEW, perhaps not a surprise that the wings were 'clipped'?

Wildcats not doing much of either, so the wing is for increasing the ASuW loadout (to increase the numbers that can be 'hung') rather than anything else? Just an educated guess

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

SW1 wrote: Good for fwd flight extra weight in the hover.

ASW certainly involves quite a bit of hover, but is that the case for doing AEW duties?
- now with a mainly ASW fleet that can be tasked (roll-on & off with kit) for AEW, perhaps not a surprise that the wings were 'clipped'?

Wildcats not doing much of either, so the wing is for increasing the ASuW loadout (to increase the numbers that can be 'hung') rather than anything else? Just an educated guess

They need to land and takeoff too. It’s all a balance.

I would of thought that was likely the main reason, any benefits in cruise a bonus.

Lord Jim wrote:Wasn't the Merlin with "Wings" a possible design to counter the size of Radar possibly to be used in the AEW role and also to increase its altitude and range to make it more effective?

I've looked online & couldbt find any pics of it though.

Dahedd wrote:I've looked online & couldbt find any pics of it though.

TD archives; don't know if the search function works any better now than during the time the pieces were available online, though

Wings were reputed to have been those of the Hawker Hurricane ..



A bonus from the same place ..

I know the Lynx held the speed record for a helicopter, but wouldn't have thought it needed swept wings!

Impressive... from ""

Superb set of photos, thank you Donald-san.

Didn't really appreciate the wing cant until I saw this image. It doesn't look like you could even use a GPMG mount effectively given the space the wing occupies, certainly not an M3M.

https://www.leonardocompany.com/en/pres ... ssile-lmm-

So it looks like Wildcat is going to form part of the QLZ's airgroup when she deploys next year.

RichardIC wrote:So it looks like Wildcat is going to form part of the QLZ's airgroup when she deploys next year.

Pretty sure they mean it will be onboard an escorting vessel. Don't think there are any plans to actually keep Wildcat aboard the QE Class.

Interesting Leonardo Wildcat/Sea Venom video just released showing the engagement procedure for Sea Venom, and some video of a launch.

Timmymagic wrote:Don't think there are any plans to actually keep Wildcat aboard the QE Class.

What is the practice with the "guard" helicopter, launched to be ready for quick reaction should any 'ditching' occur?
- for the cost over many years Wildcat would be by far cheaper than a Merlin
- if it's launched from an escort, the interference with deck ops would be less
- there must be some specialist kit, to get the divers in and the other folks hoisted up? So the escort with that 'type of' Wildcat would become semi-permanently tied to the carrier... and the one-and-only would not always be available

Surely there is a standing procedure (by now) ?