UK Defence Forum

A topic to discuss defence in Canada.

Canada's Navy modernization sounds like a mess
http://uk.businessinsider.com/canadas-n ... 015-5?r=US

"Canada's efforts to modernize its navy and procure a new fleet of warships is not going well."

"Originally proposed in 2010, Canada had plans to spend $21.5 billion (Canadian $26.2 billion) for the procurement of 15 modern warships. The ships were intended to replace three destroyers and 12 frigates that were set for retirement."

"However, the procurement process has run into a series of cost overruns and delays. Reuters reports that the procurement plan could easily run over cost while leading to the construction of fewer than the 15 intended warships."

Those problems notwithstanding, I just want to take this opportunity to offer some praise for the Canadian forces. I worked with them a lot in the Northeastern Pacific doing ASW and as operators, they are as good as it gets. Extremely professional. In truth, the only nation from the "Anglosphere" with which I haven't operated extensively is New Zealand, and they are all as good as it gets.

desertswo wrote:Those problems notwithstanding, I just want to take this opportunity to offer some praise for the Canadian forces. I worked with them a lot in the Northeastern Pacific doing ASW and as operators, they are as good as it gets. Extremely professional. In truth, the only nation from the "Anglosphere" with which I haven't operated extensively is New Zealand, and they are all as good as it gets.

I wish there was a like button! Cheers for that.

Protecteur retired :-

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local ... -1.1936477

The Halifax upgrade prgrm seems to have done a good job, but is (?) deliberately running v slow to retain a core work force.

JSS has been an unmitigated disaster, and has now been underlined (as per the link above) with no supply ships at all.

Wondering what happened with the hi-end ships, the thinking was to tap into the Burke upgrade line, but to build them in Canada... of course negating any cost benefits that might have accrued.

HMCS Preserver, another Protecteur-class, was retired late last year and then dragged back out of retirement since the Queenston class destined to replace her will not be completed for another 8 years instead of in 2019 as earlier envisaged. However the RCN has had to endure the humiliation of having to search on eBay for parts for the 45-year-old ship.

Any idea what they are planning on the future submarine fleet, could the RCN hop into bed with the RAN and the Collins replacement?

More on the RCN Joint Support Ships, I must say their defence procurement makes our seem quite good.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/ ... er-delayed

.................

arfah wrote:Fast Jet pilot trainees.



First part in a series called, "Jetstream."

Good stuff. Learn something new everyday - did not know the negative G was such a factor in ground attack (EP 8), hence the rollover and dive to setup angle, then flip back upright....

Here's another one I didn't see coming...

Canada will convert a used civilian container vessel into an AOR... (hopefully this won't give any ideas to France for the planned replacement of Durance class).


L-3 MAPPS Selected by Chantier Davie Canada and Project Resolve for the
Royal Canadian Navy’s Interim Auxiliary Oil Replenishment (iAOR) Provision of Service

L-3 MAPPS announced today that Chantier Davie Canada Inc. and Project Resolve Inc. have selected its Integrated Platform Management System (IPMS) for the conversion of the container vessel M.V. Asterix into an Auxiliary Oil Replenishment (AOR) ship for the Royal Canadian Navy’s (RCN) interim supply ship capability.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=3089

What else can you do when you let things drag out for so long that you don't have any replacement?
- container ship as an oiler, though? Interesting

Australia got a wake up call when they had let things slip equally far, and did not have any ship to send in response to some natural disaster (I wonder if the Bay was bought in haste, there inspections after the fact found quite a few faults...)

^ As an "interim" solution why not, but a couple of my readers have already commented that single prop / single rudder should normally be a big no no for UNREP maneuvers for basic safety reasons.

Sure. Single hull is also an issue. Obviously, on a container ship the fuel would be kept in separately skinned departments. But I read somewhere (here?) that Babcock has been commissioned to look at double skinning an existing oiler/ tanker vessel (for Australia).
- so the neglecting of the general category of these vessels seems to be coming "back to bite"

why not lease one of the UK's laid up tankers

Which ones? The time pressure on tanker programme was from the single hull issue (won't be allowed in many ports), and of course from obsolescence and diminutive capacity relative to what the CVFs will need... with all their escorts "in tow".

Have we laid up some, prior to the delivery of the new ones (from Korea, fitting out with specialist bits in the UK)?

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Which ones? The time pressure on tanker programme was from the single hull issue (won't be allowed in many ports), and of course from obsolescence and diminutive capacity relative to what the CVFs will need... with all their escorts "in tow".

Have we laid up some, prior to the delivery of the new ones (from Korea, fitting out with specialist bits in the UK)?

My impression is that RFA Orangeleaf and Fort Rosalie are laid up in Birkenhead at the moment mostly due to a shortage of engineers within the RFA. However some Googling suggests that both will be coming back into service in the near future.

so what is Canada's new defence policy under the Liberals?

Canada to Withdraw Fighter Jets From Syria and Iraq Strikes

Canadian Prime Minister-designate Justin Trudeau has confirmed he will withdraw Canadian fighter jets from the air strikes against Islamic State (IS) in Iraq and Syria.

He informed US President Barack Obama of his decision hours after leading his Liberal Party to victory in the polls.

As part of his election campaign, Mr Trudeau pledged to bring home the CF-18 fighter jets that were deployed to the region until March 2016.

He has not yet given a timescale.

Read More: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34589250

marktigger wrote:so what is Canada's new defence policy under the Liberals?

I read it today, but cant remember what the source was.
It was pretty much sit back and chill out. No interventions, just self defence . I'm not sure they actually have one...


edit, found this

“The primary mission of our fighter aircraft should remain the defence of North America, not stealth first-strike capability,” the platform said. “We will make investing in the Royal Canadian Navy a top priority. By purchasing more affordable alternatives to the F-35s, we will be able to invest in strengthening our Navy.”

The liberals even want to shut f35 out of the new competition; the outgoing governing party insists that it must be included

Is there any idea what they believe is a reasonable unit price for the aircraft ? If the requirements for the aircraft are primarily long range patrols of its borders and sea zones you could be looking at a different aircraft to a fighter , certainly there are aircraft that could meet long range interceptor roles that would preclude the F35 , this though of course depends if Canada has airbases in those northern reaches of concern .
Canada is long overdue for new naval ships to replace their destroyers and may enter into a similar competition to the Australian procurement competition . just guessing of course.

T26 time!

shark bait wrote:T26 time!

Nah, with a name like Trudeau they will go with FREMM.