General UK Defence Discussion

[ArmChairCivvy]

do believe though that we made mistakes in the past, and we are now learning them.

I agree, and am quite worried about how good, actually, the interface is between the top policy makers, their advisers (I count in those Parlamentarians who have decided to dedicate a lot of their time to these questions) and the military. Or, is it down to a few relationships that have been built over time, and the whole structure can be rocked by a few individuals moving posts.

[bobp]

I agree, and am quite worried about how good, actually, the interface is between the top policy makers, their advisers (I count in those Parlamentarians who have decided to dedicate a lot of their time to these questions) and the military

I worry too about the moral of the ordinary service man or woman, low rates of pay long hours, poor housing and food and of course the recent prosecutions due to alleged war crimes. Recruitment figures reflect on how the public view the military these days.

[LordJim]

The UK Government needs to be more protective of it's Service men and women, and draw a line under many of these historic claims which are hurting the morale of current personal and the recruitment of future personnel. It has to be a level playing field with Northern Ireland a prime example. The Government cannot allow PIRA members to be given a free pass and then allow ex servicemen be hunted by politically correct Police, Politicians and Civil Servants.

It seems these days it is the practice to respond to any allegations by launching a major fishing expedition to try to find evidence the backs up the initial claim, and in a highly publicised manor. It is verging on being guilty until proven otherwise and or justice but the media. Is it simply that those in power are so terrified of being accused of a cover up they will hang anyone out to dry?!

[bobp]

Well said LordJim

[dmereifield]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/ ... -8mb6vljtz

Sunday Times reports "Huge gaps in defence"

Mostly behind a pay wall....

[ArmChairCivvy]

May be we should ask for a carbon copy of the Mattis plan:

"wide array of capabilities including long-range fires (missiles and artillery), air defense, force protection, electronic warfare, and cybersecurity."
- the technical note is that cyber is not just an Internet thing, but hardening the comms in the field is currently proceeding (in the US army) at a pace that will mean not one, but several decades of roll out. And our Project Morpheus is mainly on the drawing board?

[abc123]

The MoD said Britain’s defence budget is the biggest in Europe and “is growing every year”.

It added: “We are focused on maintaining an affordable programme and getting the best value for the taxpayer to deliver the cutting-edge kit [that] our armed forces need to keep Britain safe.”

La la la la I can't hear you....



Man would have thought that they will think something else, this is allready boring...

[abc123]

La la la la I can't hear you....



Man would have thought that they will think something else, this is allready boring...

Err..? I didn't write it. It's from the Sunday times.

It's the reaction on MoDs response. It reminds me on: La la la I can't hear you

[LordJim]

Spinning broken record again and again. Reading or listening the Mod or Governmental statements on defence makes me want to curl up an die. Such blatant half truths and so on!

[marktigger]

LordJim remember the old joke how do you know a politician is lying................Their lips move !

[LordJim]

Yep, and that when a Politician take a crap he wipes his mouth afterwards.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Something positive...the UK has managed to avoid helicopter "microfleets" and has consistently pursued as few types as possible:

21 different platforms(=2020 defence related helicopters in W. Europe as per 2014)
- In reality, around 30 different types of helicopters
- Some are excluded from the count (e.g. soviet helicopters in Polish army, AW 129 only used
by Italy, etc.)
- the cost of maintenance and repair is skyrocketing, making it v hard to allocate any funds for fleet renewal

Even the Puma decision (v expensive renewal for a smallish fleet, of v old design) needs to be seen in this context: avoiding the choice of new "medium" helo until the much better designs mature and open the way for even fewer types across the board
- take the type average from the above stats; abt a hundred
- not too bad (?)... until it is divided by the average number of countries that are users (abt half a dozen)
- now we know why the helos are practically burning away defence pounds/ euros: not just that they do not generate any other lift than by engine power, but keeping them flyable is expensive as hell (the organisation of it, on average, the proverbial piss up in the brewery)

[dmereifield]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/b ... me-9805169

"Brit troops offered part-time roles and chance to avoid fighting on the frontline"

Complete lack of details on how these proposals would work....

[LordJim]

I agree with the source quoted, this will have a detrimental effect on the Armed Forces. The Top Brass seem to be more concerned about troop numbers rather than what they can actually do. It will certainly kill off any idea of being able to deploy a division and will probably curtail the deployment of a brigade except in extreme circumstances. However if this is the goal and it is revealed as such in the next SDSR then fine, as long as they are transparent about it.

[dmereifield]

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-defe ... to-target/

Oh dear, even with cooking the books we haven't met the 2% NATO target. Looks awfully embarrassing since the PM has been so vocal about this lately. Time to get the cheque book out next month Chancellor......

[RetroSicotte]

And funnily enough BBC don't report it at all.

Apparently PewDiePie's youtube channel being dropped by Disney is bigger news to them.

They really don't give a damn on defence matters.

[downsizer]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/b ... me-9805169

"Brit troops offered part-time roles and chance to avoid fighting on the frontline"

Complete lack of details on how these proposals would work....

I agree with the source quoted, this will have a detrimental effect on the Armed Forces. The Top Brass seem to be more concerned about troop numbers rather than what they can actually do. It will certainly kill off any idea of being able to deploy a division and will probably curtail the deployment of a brigade except in extreme circumstances. However if this is the goal and it is revealed as such in the next SDSR then fine, as long as they are transparent about it.

There is a lot of spin in the various articles about this trial. The proposal is that people in suitable roles, with applications approved by the CoC, may for a short period of time, alter their working hours or opt out of some deployments. They will not be paid and time will not count for pensionable service. Due to that, I don't think there will be an enormous take up, but if it means we can retain useful qualified people, without having to retrain from scratch, whilst they take a bit of a break due to personal circumstances, then that can only be a good thing. Plus the CoC can cancel the arrangement at any point they want.

But let's not let the truth get in the way of the armchair generals.

[RetroSicotte]

If you have additional information to provide to help people who have commented previously understand, Downsizer, then can you present it in a less mocking tone at members of this forum, please? It's really not conducive to a good environment for discussion.

[downsizer]

I've provided exactly what the trial is about. Perhaps people shouldn't mock the proposal until they understand it? Or maybe they'd prefer to continue to drive out the serving members of the forum?

[bobp]

Oh dear, even with cooking the books we haven't met the 2% NATO target. Looks awfully embarrassing since the PM has been so vocal about this lately. Time to get the cheque book out next month Chancellor......

With inflation being very low my Armed Forces Pension has barely moved in recent years. Not only are pensions included but the biggest slice of defence spending is going to be on the four new Trident boats for the foreseeable future. So if anything the situation will not improve unless extra pennies are found....unlikely.

[dmereifield]

I'm not sure why I was quoted and inferred to be an armchair General...I merely highlighted a proposal (reported in the press) and stated that there weren't any details on how it would be implemented...I do hope that any proposals to improve working conditions or operational capabilities have a positive effect....I mostly come here because I hope those that are in the know will be able to provide info as to whether the press articles are accurate or not

[downsizer]

Armchair generals wasn't aimed at anyone specific, but rather a large diaspora in the ether who seem to think they know best despite being out for years.

[Defiance]

Best to keep it open source or hold-fire

[bobp]

Does not seem a bad thing if a soldier who has problems at home can take a break to sort it out. May prevent him leaving or worse still going AWOL.

[dmereifield]

Best to keep it open source or hold-fire

Yes within that context, that is what I meant. Usually its the interpretation and understanding of the open source info that is flawed, in the press articles, or is misconstrued to fit a narrative. And by reading here and asking questions I hope to get a better informed view from the people on the ground, within the confines of what can discussed in the public domain