General UK Defence Discussion

For everything else UK defence-related that doesn't fit into any of the sections above.
SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by SW1 »



Oh logistics…
These users liked the author SW1 for the post:
wargame_insomniac

Repulse
Donator
Posts: 4584
Joined: 05 May 2015, 22:46
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Repulse »

Is this the day the dream of a 3% of GDP U.K. defence budget died?
These users liked the author Repulse for the post:
zanahoria
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

Jdam
Member
Posts: 922
Joined: 09 May 2015, 22:26
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Jdam »

Was it anything more than a dream to begin with? Or something to keep Ben Wallace in line.

I didn't see any plans of what the increased budget was going to be spent on, since the start of the war in Ukraine we have seen very little talk of what we would want and even less direction. Just look at what the Aussies are going.

We have said we will increase our MRLS batteries (good idea) and that's about it. Some talk about maybe we should be buying more submarines and I cant really think of anything else. Now after retiring all of mine sweepers to buy the typr 32 in the "future" they are now dropping hints at maybe we need to look into more subs? We wont do both.

Then you have the MOD itself, how much of that 3% would be well spent? AJAX where is it?, Type 26 behind scheduled, buying american weapons increase of integrating our own, ect. :(

Repulse
Donator
Posts: 4584
Joined: 05 May 2015, 22:46
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Repulse »

With defence inflation running double digits on top of a devaluation of the pound then even standing still with similar numbers / capabilities seems a stretch too far
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2784
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Caribbean »

I think I would be more confident of the 3% if taxation isn't going to be cut, but other Government spending is. There was no way that Kwarteng could square the circle of increased spending and tax cuts (except through borrowing more, which he couldn't get without bond rates rising rapidly). Whatever happens, we won't see much in the short term as all the spare money is going towards reducing energy costs for individuals in what seems a very inefficient way.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

inch
Senior Member
Posts: 1311
Joined: 27 May 2015, 21:35

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by inch »

Well think our defence budget is going to go down not up listening to the radio this morning, Jeremy Hunt saying he going to ask EVERY department to make savings ,think the 3% defence budget was just a pipe dream tbh ,be very lucky if can even maintain the budget we have now going forwards ,a total screw up tbh
These users liked the author inch for the post (total 2):
RepulseLord Jim

Repulse
Donator
Posts: 4584
Joined: 05 May 2015, 22:46
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Repulse »

Even if Defence spending is frozen in the budget update (which is probably unlikely), short term savings will need to be found quickly.

Given that cutting stocks further is not an option, given that they are already depleted from Ukraine, what are the options?

- Freeze on recruitment?
- Further mothballing?
- Earlier sunsetting of platforms?
- Slower production/procurement?
- Selling kit / platforms?

For the RN, I’d argue for example to sell a couple of the T31s (with more T32s later), but not sure this would save money in the key period (in the next couple of years), unless someone like the RNZN fancies taking over the payments to Babcock.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

inch
Senior Member
Posts: 1311
Joined: 27 May 2015, 21:35

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by inch »

Think if gov cuts more and delays more and more think they will get absolutely slated and quite rightly ,think MPs ,gov and the mod ,and the top brass in our forces are absolutely useless ,a complete shower ,just like in the second world war think Rommel pointed out he could rule the world with the British Tommy but we're lead by donkeys and nothings changed in my book ,too many board room bollox by upercrust idiots in my view ,same in MOD and government and not enough people with real gravitas


GarethDavies1
Member
Posts: 86
Joined: 26 May 2021, 11:45
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by GarethDavies1 »

More than a concern, can't believe they are not breaching the official secrets act. Disfgraceful.

wargame_insomniac
Senior Member
Posts: 1135
Joined: 20 Nov 2021, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by wargame_insomniac »

Meanwhile RAF have a backlog of training new pilots.....
:(

tomuk
Senior Member
Posts: 1411
Joined: 20 Dec 2017, 20:24
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by tomuk »

GarethDavies1 wrote: 18 Oct 2022, 12:22 More than a concern, can't believe they are not breaching the official secrets act. Disfgraceful.
Quite although that didn't stop us in the past flogging the Chinese the a load of 'redundant' Nimrod AEW\Searchwater radar sets for $66m

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by SW1 »

Really depends what flying they’re doing with the Chinese.

People sell their skills to whoever gets a willing to pay for it and they have broken no laws doing it.

It’s equally as distasteful selling hardware to Saudi while they support Russia.

inch
Senior Member
Posts: 1311
Joined: 27 May 2015, 21:35

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by inch »

Maybe that's why Ben Wallace went flying over to the US hurriedly,bet the Americans were going scatty about it and rightly so , unbelievable tbh and if government new for some time and did not nip it in the bud straight away somehow,yet again the government and MOD department unfit for purpose in my view without some serious serious shake ups and accountability , wouldn't be surprised by the US down grading UK to a category of major security risk country ,"wow" shocked tbh

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by SW1 »

inch wrote: 18 Oct 2022, 21:15 Maybe that's why Ben Wallace went flying over to the US hurriedly,bet the Americans were going scatty about it and rightly so , unbelievable tbh and if government new for some time and did not nip it in the bud straight away somehow,yet again the government and MOD department unfit for purpose in my view without some serious serious shake ups and accountability , wouldn't be surprised by the US down grading UK to a category of major security risk country ,"wow" shocked tbh

You may find it’s not just U.K. pilots involved
These users liked the author SW1 for the post (total 2):
CaribbeanJensy

Scimitar54
Senior Member
Posts: 1701
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Scimitar54 »

Should be classed as treason in my view!
These users liked the author Scimitar54 for the post:
Little J

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2784
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Caribbean »

inch wrote: 18 Oct 2022, 21:15 Maybe that's why Ben Wallace went flying over to the US hurriedly,bet the Americans were going scatty about it and rightly so , unbelievable tbh and if government new for some time and did not nip it in the bud straight away somehow,yet again the government and MOD department unfit for purpose in my view without some serious serious shake ups and accountability , wouldn't be surprised by the US down grading UK to a category of major security risk country ,"wow" shocked tbh
I suspect that there are a few more pressing matters at the moment. Co-ordination of graduated UK-US military responses to escalating provocation being rather higher up the list, for one.

For every UK pilot involved, there are probably five US and two French.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Scimitar54
Senior Member
Posts: 1701
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Scimitar54 »

The French and US can look after their own related problems, we should just concentrate on ours.

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2784
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Caribbean »

Scimitar54 wrote: 19 Oct 2022, 02:33 The French and US can look after their own related problems, we should just concentrate on ours.
In which case, Ben Wallace could/ would simply have sent a letter saying "You sort out your stuff and we'll sort out ours". No need to fly to Washington.

As I say, much more important stuff to be discussed at the moment. Stuff that needs discussing face-to-face in secure locations.

Plus, of course, the political/ diplomatic message it sends of close allies meeting to discuss next steps.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Jdam
Member
Posts: 922
Joined: 09 May 2015, 22:26
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Jdam »

tomuk wrote: 18 Oct 2022, 20:03
GarethDavies1 wrote: 18 Oct 2022, 12:22 More than a concern, can't believe they are not breaching the official secrets act. Disfgraceful.
Quite although that didn't stop us in the past flogging the Chinese the a load of 'redundant' Nimrod AEW\Searchwater radar sets for $66m
Holy shit, surely not :shock: :wtf:

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2784
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Caribbean »

The Mail seems to be pushing the line that Putin is considering a nuclear "show of force" either over one of their own testing grounds, or possibly over the Black Sea. Now, that IS the sort of thing that would warrant a face-to-face in the US.

Heappey is "quoted" as saying that they are discussing things that are "beyond belief", while Cleverly says they are just discussing what response to give to the use of Iranian loitering munitions.

It's the Mail, so make of it what you will - hopefully just more click-bait rubbish. If it's made up, it's incredibly irresponsible.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

wargame_insomniac
Senior Member
Posts: 1135
Joined: 20 Nov 2021, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by wargame_insomniac »

I was born after the Cuban Missile Crisis so the current Russian sabre rattling if threatening to use even tactical Nuclear warheads is the most serious risk of Nuclear escalation in my lifetime.

So the time to be discussing possible NATO resonses to such tactical use of nukes is now, when the discuss suitable reactions both calmly and more rationally than if they wait for the nukes to go off.

Also can ensure that US & UK can have a coordinated response,,

inch
Senior Member
Posts: 1311
Joined: 27 May 2015, 21:35

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by inch »

Do people on here think if Russia does actually set off a nuclear explosion somewhere,that France would toe the US/UK line or try to wiggle out of it somehow instead of a unified front ,I'm not so sure myself , Europe is always a bit suspect in my view for holding a line ,and if did Russia did do a show if force,is suspect Europe might wobble and I think that's what Putin is hoping for ,at same time think UK/US would hold right up to the missiles about to be launched

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7314
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by Lord Jim »

There would be a response, though I doubt it would be a nuclear one to a tactical device being used. Russia would also find its allies would also wobble to put it mildly, not wanting to be tarred by the same brush. There would also be ramification at home for Russia, as outside of Putin's inner circle, the fear of a nuclear escalation progressing may cause high ranking members of the Military to take actions to ensure no further launches could take place.

Putin may also find it difficult to actually launch a nuke in the first place as it needs to co-operation of the Russian military to do so, and it is one thing to launch one in response to a hostile launch but firing first opens a can of worms Russia will be made to suffer for. I think Putin would find it hard to justify the use of a tactical nuke to his own population let alone the rest of the world. All in all his threats have shown how unstable he has become since his "Special Operation" did not go as he was expecting or had been told it would.

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: General UK Defence Discussion

Post by SW1 »

Coincidence?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... d-63326102

Communications to Shetland have been severely disabled after a subsea cable was damaged.
Police have declared a major incident after the south subsea cable between the islands and the mainland was cut.
The force said phones, internet and computers were not usable and that officers were patrolling to try to reassure residents.
Repairs to another cable connecting Shetland and Faroe are ongoing after it was damaged last week.

Post Reply