Closures

[downsizer]

More closures listed here

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _FINAL.pdf

[dmereifield]

More closures listed here

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _FINAL.pdf

I misread it at first and thought they were to going to dispose the the citadel in Plymouth...looks like to is being repurposed...or reprovisioned bit not exactly clear how

Edit: No i was right the first time around, the citadel and the stonehouse barracks (as announced previously) are ti be disposed of...ridiculous...

[FuNsTeR]

looking at the list of closures it looks pretty grim if we are not replacing some or most of those bases

[RetroSicotte]

Absolutely deplorable. Fort George for goodness sake, that place is a historical icon up here.

[GibMariner]

Gosport MP vows to lobby MoD against planned HMS Sultan sale: http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defenc ... -1-7667683

Plymouth to become Royal Marine 'superbase': http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/plymout ... story.html

[bobp]

Its sad to see so much of our military history being cut back. Once gone it can never be replaced. Still this government continues to reduce the armed forces to a shadow of its former self.

[marktigger]

its interesting reading the list how many units barracks are closing and there isn't a plan for where they are moving to. And units that have moved to expensive purpose built facilities who are now moving again (Kings troop RHA barracks at woolwich only opened 3-4 years ago).

[GibMariner]

Yesterday's "debate" on the Defence Estate: https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/ ... 07a.1285.1

[RetroSicotte]

Thanks for the link, GM. It's remarkable how the SNP can make some good points about closing bases and then throw away credibility with the rest of their speech by angling it at Trident instead of the matter at hand about reducing base numbers.

[GibMariner]

Thanks for the link, GM. It's remarkable how the SNP can make some good points about closing bases and then throw away credibility with the rest of their speech by angling it at Trident instead of the matter at hand about reducing base numbers.

I too find it remarkable, especially Brendan O'Hara's moaning about "this Government’s obsession with nuclear weapons", while he does make a valid point about the deterrent now coming out of the core defence budget, if anything it's the SNP, Corbynites & the CND lot that are obsessed with nuclear weapons.

Disappointing to see HMS Sultan being shut down.

Surprised MoD Caledonia is also up for disposal by 2022 with the 'Intended Reprovision Plan' merely stating 'Edinburgh'. I'd assume Caledonia had received plenty of funding and improvements in recent years due to the Queen Elizabeth-class build and that the likelihood that future refits would be carried out at Rosyth would have secured it as a support base.

Would be unfortunate if it created a situation like in Gib where decades of MoD land "rationalisation" and "consolidation" has led to having to use local hotels for accommodation, and Gib hotels can hardly be described as affordable.

I also suspect that all this land being offered for housing will result in a situation like in Gib where ex-MoD land tends to end up being redeveloped for luxury housing, out of reach for the majority and does nothing to reduce the housing shortage.

[marktigger]

Be interesting to see where the units from 3 cdobrigade go round plymouth some farmer is going to make allot of money if they super garrison raleigh

[topman]

I'm surprised that it hasn't happened before. I knew that the MoD (the army in particular) small units dotted around the place, but TBH I never realised there were so many. Although reading the list there's an awful lot of 'TBC', I wonder where they'll all end.
Looking through the list, not much to affect us, not much to sell off. Plenty of them have already been announced before anyway. Barham is tiny and in the middle of nowhere, I can't believe they'll be much demand to live on the edge of a training area. The airfield at Halton is tiny, just a hangar and a grass field, but I suppose they'll fill it with houses like they did the old hospital.

[Gabriele]

The real worries in my opinion are:

- Hidden announcement on the impending doom for 102 Logistic Brigade (disbanded in 2018 with its units re-subordinated elsewhere); this reinforces the fear that Army 2020 Refine is really a cut masked as good news. Those MIVs are going to cost the army the last little bit of ambition of ever having two divisions again.

- Some medical units are also going out of the window, apparently (2 medical regiment and a field hospital?)

- Fort George. The SNP moaning is going to be so damn intense.
Also, the place is beautiful and full of history: i get the rationale for moving the serving troops to a better base, closer to training spaces and everything, but what will happen to the fortress? Same to be said for the Citadel in Plymouth and other very special places, such as Nelson wardroom and the D-Day room. Surely those must be protected for future generations in a way or another.

- The amount of regimental moves still without a destination is amazing. Hard to put much faith in a plan that has nothing planned.

[marktigger]

Gabriele bases like Woolwich Artillery Barracks frontage, fort george, the Royal citadel and stonehouse are beautiful however they are Listed to varying degrees which means it is nearly impossible to do anything to them. refurbishing them is expensive and you still can't bring them up to the standards required. Fort George to maintain costs £1.6 million a year to maintain. Add in the additional expense of paying troops substandard accommodation allowance on top of other costs also it effects units morale. Building any new structures is also subject to a huge ammount of red tape and expense. There are times its cheaper to cut your loses and build new. The buildings will be put to other uses as they can't be demolished.

the loss of a field hospital is no big deal they are cadreised with only 20-30 personnel all the time they draw on the reserves and MDHU staff on mobilisation.

[Gabriele]

Gabriele bases like Woolwich Artillery Barracks frontage, fort george, the Royal citadel and stonehouse are beautiful however they are Listed to varying degrees which means it is nearly impossible to do anything to them. refurbishing them is expensive and you still can't bring them up to the standards required. Fort George to maintain costs £1.6 million a year to maintain. Add in the additional expense of paying troops substandard accommodation allowance on top of other costs also it effects units morale. Building any new structures is also subject to a huge ammount of red tape and expense. There are times its cheaper to cut your loses and build new. The buildings will be put to other uses as they can't be demolished.

I understand that, as i said. I think moving out does make sense. I'm just concerned about seeing those places preserved for the nation in a decent way.

[R_Murphy]

Isn't it typical that they make this statement the day before the US election, when it won't make front page news.

[dmereifield]

Gabriele bases like Woolwich Artillery Barracks frontage, fort george, the Royal citadel and stonehouse are beautiful however they are Listed to varying degrees which means it is nearly impossible to do anything to them. refurbishing them is expensive and you still can't bring them up to the standards required. Fort George to maintain costs £1.6 million a year to maintain. Add in the additional expense of paying troops substandard accommodation allowance on top of other costs also it effects units morale. Building any new structures is also subject to a huge ammount of red tape and expense. There are times its cheaper to cut your loses and build new. The buildings will be put to other uses as they can't be demolished.

the loss of a field hospital is no big deal they are cadreised with only 20-30 personnel all the time they draw on the reserves and MDHU staff on mobilisation.

so do you think these announcements will be warmly received by 29 and 3 Commando (re Royal Citadel and the Stonehouse Barracks)? It seems like it's not going to save a great deal of money (saving some £140 million a year by disposing of all 91 sites) and they can't sell the Citadel, it will have to be handed back to the Crown

[marktigger]

the local MP is sad as he's an ex 29cdo. I've heard rumours about the concentration of 3 cdo bde for a number of years. But the move of CLR, 24 Cdo Engr and 40 Cdo was a surprise North Devon And Taunton councils are shocked by the move. But be interesting 45 Cdo Battle group coming south.

Since the RM Museum is closing and moving in to Portsmouth Historic Dockyard an Idea could be move the RM Museum closer to the Brigade and into Stonehouse or Royal Citadel?
Royal William Victalling Yard (just round the Corner from stonehouse) has been very well reused with apartments, restraunts and shops? further Gentrifying the area more though might impact the local night life round "Union Street"!

[Gabriele]

There has been talk of bringing 45 Commando down south for years. 7 Bty 29 Cdo RA is still waiting (for all i know) for the order to move south. They received it, then it was put on hold. 45 Cdo at one point was expected to move to HMS Raleigh, i think it was. But politics complicate such a scenario.

[Dahedd]

Ft George is stunning. But its not fit for purpose & being a listed building it can't be upgraded.

Kinloss on my doorstep stays, which I find surprising as I know from chatting to army guys that the younger soldiers hate being there. As one put it, the younger lads who play their X boxes all day don't appreciate the nature of the area, those older guys wIth families do. In fact it looks like it could be expanded as there is plenty of space.

[dmereifield]

http://m.plymouthherald.co.uk/life-in-r ... story.html

Sounds like they need to close Norton Manor Camp more quickly than planned (2028 according to the defence estate strategy)

[marktigger]

there's more than one barracks like this around and allot of the maintenance issues are down to how unresponsive the contractors are in getting around to sorting out the problems.

[dmereifield]

there's more than one barracks like this around and allot of the maintenance issues are down to how unresponsive the contractors are in getting around to sorting out the problems.

Depressing to hear

[dmereifield]

The NAO report sounds quite damning...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37978589

it's very disappointing to hear just how run down the estate is, and specifically how poor accommodation is for serving personnel. Hopefully the "£4 billion investment in the estate" touted by Fallon does indeed materialise, and sooner rather than later....

[Gabriele]

1, maybe 2 billion, by the way. 2 billions are not there and need to be "found" first.

The funding will come from a variety of sources. Our Spending Review 15 settlement has already
provided over £1Bn for this strategy. Our additional disposal proceeds from the strategy are expected
to deliver a further £1Bn to be re-invested in the estate over the next 10 years, with further proceeds
thereafter.
9. The MOD will continue to explore alternative funding sources, such as Private Finance 2 (PF2) or other
finance mechanisms, to meet the remaining £2Bn requirement. However, the exact scale and profile of
this investment will be subject to the outcome of further analysis, as the strategy is implemented.