Spitfire9 wrote: ↑04 Jan 2023, 15:26
mrclark303 wrote: ↑04 Jan 2023, 09:11
India has unfortunately shown itself to be an unreliable partner, in an era when right thinking nations are stepping forward and firmly hammering their colours to the mast.
I hope they don't look towards Russia for help if China attacks, I doubt their loyalty to Putin will be rewarded..
India is not a partner of the west. Definitely not a partner of US. US applied sanctions when India tested a nuclear device about 20 years ago. All the R&D and dev work done on their LCA fly-by-wire system in US was embargoed, meaning India had to start more or less from scratch again by on its own.
India is under constant attack (several times a week) by armed militants crossing from Pakistan. US favoured Pakistan over India while conducting its Afghanistan operations, to India's cost. You can surely understand that India does not see US as a country it would want to be rely on. It has proved to be unreliable in the past. In recent times it has given support to a country seen as a 'terrorist state' by India.
To me India should have condemned Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Not because it invaded an 'ally' of the west. Because it invaded a sovereign country.
Hi -
I agree with your broad sentiment re: trusting India(not a good idea) - but a number of items need clarfication around "terrorism" and "who" was turning a blind eye and "when".
1 - The USA is the master of self-interest in all global relations and how it can benefit the USA, we all know this.
2 - This self interest applies to how it "views" and "uses" both Pakistan and India.
3 - The Americans leaned towards Pakistan, and ignored Pakistan's struggles with India ( eg Kashmir ) as the Americans were only interested in the war against the Soviets ( ie so USA ignored Pakistans nuclear programme, and ignored the transfer of some of the "mujahideen" to Kashmir alongside Afghanistan ).
4 - The USA leaned towards Pakistan, during the "war on terror" as they needed Pakistan to be onside. That was the USA interest.
5 - The USA *** ignored Indian sponsored terrorism emanating from Afghanistan to Pakistan during the war on terror **** , that cost the lives of 0's of thousands of Pakistan's because it was in the USA interest to ignore "that terrorism" from a future potential ally(India) that could be used against China.
No country has been as effective as using Terrorism as a military and political tool than India has been .. no country... not even Pakistan
[bold] India set up DOZENS of FAKE "embassies", "diplomatic missions" along the Pakistan / Afghanistan border with the support of the "once then Kabul goverment" and the USA turned a blind eye to them, knowing precisely what the Indians were up to.
It used official diplomatic cover to setup these buildings, and then its RAW intelligence agencies used those building as bases to setup terrorist traning camps surrounding these Indian diplomatic buildings. It trained terrorists, who then went to Pakistan to kill ten's of thousands of Pakistan's civilians.
6 - It took the fall of the previous Afghan goverment, and the exit of the "diplomats re:RAW Terrors Trainers" from these fake buildings for terrorism to Pakistan to down massively. Thousands of Pakistan's would die every year and now it is in units of ten's. It was like a light switch that went off.
All of India's terrorist infrastructure in Afghanistan was torn down and that bought an end to India's reign of terorist terror.
The USA and NATO never took to task India for these terrorist training centres and was the root cause of the breakdown and fallout between USA / Pakistan and the end of the war on terror. Pakistan was annoyed with the USA / NATO for not stopping Indian Terrorist training camps but still asking Pakistan to focus on those brand of terrorists that it was USA interests.
7 - Pakistan was/is pissed at the Americans for turning their blind eye to this Indian terrorism under the USA and NATO "watch", so Pakistan was therefore NOT SAD to see them go. Since they left, things are much more peaceful in Pakistan. Not totally peaceful, but so so much better.
8 - The Indians created the TTP terrorist group. Period.
TTP owes its history and creation, its patronage to India and RAW ...
9 - 70,000 Pakistan 's were killed in the war on terror (read a chunk of that was due to "Indian sponsored terrorism").
10 - There are still problems with TTP as the Taliban do not have full territorial control yet and there have been issues recently, but the unit of scale is from thousands to 10's and maybe will rise to hundreds now(recent issues ).
11- Since the "war on terror" is at an end, and the USA left Afghanistan, the USA is now on building anti-China alliance of which India is a member, so the USA has been shitting on Pakistan more... that is the reality of "self interest". Lets not kid ourselves here.
12 - India has fenced off the entire Indian Occuplied Kashmir and Pakistan Occupied Kashmir and Pakistan-India border. Not much gets across that is not meant to. However India still likes to talk about Pakistani militants somehow cross over this border because such talk is about Optics and weaponisation of terrorism for political gains ...
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/image ... r-at-night
I can write an entire book on this topic but i wont, but i just wanted to correct the perception that "only Pakistan" has used terrorism and not India. India has used it and used it much much better than Pakistan and it managed to successfully co-opt the USA in that....
(this is not the right thread to talk about this - apologies to the mod's, and my rant is far far more than your comment - but i had to step in here on what you said and make it clear, that things are never that clear without context ).