Changing RAF Roles

[james k]

Given that the RAF has a somewhat questionable history with joint service endeavours would there be a case for Maritime Patrol Aircraft and all F35's operating from the aircraft carriers, being handed over to the Royal Navy and Support Helicopters to the Army Air Corps? This would allow the RAF to concentrate on it's core roles of Air Defence of the UK, Air Strikes, AEW, Airborne Electronic Intelligence and Strategic/Tactical lift.
RAF MPA and Carrier Aircraft and Support Helicopters are simply a case of having their fingers in someone else's pies anyway

[RichardIC]

Yes, definitely, as long as the personnel can be persuaded to move with the equipment.

The archane rule that says that the AAC can operate small helicopters but the RAF has to operate larger ones, which is probably printed on vellum and locked in an oaken chest in a vault guarded by a dragon, is particularly bonkers.

[indeid]

Nah, go the other way, the other services could send everything that flies* over to the RAF where they belong as a 100th bday pressie. Could even put a light blue bow on them. Perfect.

* Apart from Watchkeeper, no one wants that....

[james k]

When does a helicopter become large? The Puma isn't a particularly large aircraft.

The reason I posed the question isn't all to do with my dislike and suspicion of the junior service, it's also about practical applications.

To support helicopters on the battlefield then the RAF ground crew have to be taught infantry skills over and above basic weapon handling. This is time consuming and might not be what the airmen joined to do - if they wished to be soldiers they'd have joined the Army or RAF Regiment. When operating from warships they have to learn sea survival but unlike the Fleet Air Arm, the RAF do very little damage control training, watch keeping or firefighting - thus they become mere passengers for anything other than flying stations.

Yes, definitely, as long as the personnel can be persuaded to move with the equipment.

The archane rule that says that the AAC can operate small helicopters but the RAF has to operate larger ones, which is probably printed on vellum and locked in an oaken chest in a vault guarded by a dragon, is particularly bonkers.

[topman]

Not done this one in a while

[ArmChairCivvy]

AAC can operate small helicopters but the RAF has to operate larger ones,

Is that an urban legend? In the US they had to have a formal agreement about fixed wing; BTW, the AAC just sent all their fixed wing planes... to Joint Helicopter Force!

* Apart from Watchkeeper, no one wants that...

Guess where that ended up? A hint: it's fixed wing, so...

[marktigger]

RAF MPA and Carrier Aircraft and Support Helicopters are simply a case of having their fingers in someone else's pies anyway

isn't that what the RAF excel at sticking their fingers into other peoples pies and spinning how it didn't work until they did.

[james k]

Pretty much. For example people like to forget what a disaster it was when in the 1930's the RAF controlled the aircraft deployed on RN Carriers, something which led to the re-emergence of the FAA.

I'm sure that if there is ever another Battle of Britain then the RAF will be truly awesome, just as they would be if there are ever some Dams that need destroying. Since that it their forte, perhaps other roles should be stripped from them?

RAF MPA and Carrier Aircraft and Support Helicopters are simply a case of having their fingers in someone else's pies anyway

isn't that what the RAF excel at sticking their fingers into other peoples pies and spinning how it didn't work until they did.

[RichardIC]

Is that an urban legend?

No, honest. It happened in 1957:

"Duncan Sandys, had directed that the War Office [prior to the formation of the MoD in 1964] was to assume responsibility for the manning and operation of unarmed light aircraft not exceeding an all-up weight of 4,000 lbs.... This decision was to bedevil army aviation for several decades, an early example of its unfortunate consequences being the transfer of title to JEHU’s [Joint Experimental Helicopter Unit] assets to the RAF, rather than the Army."

https://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafile ... 96FF80.pdf

The 4,000lb limit may have gone a long way back, but at any one moment in time the RAF has had the larger helicopters. Only Apache has really come anywhere near challenging.

[james k]

The fact that there are Army Royal Marines and Royal Navy flying Chinooks helps the RAF. I remember seeing a headline stating "RAF Pilot wins medal" (I think it might have been the DFC) with a picture of a Royal Marine officer receiving it. No mention of the Royal Marines at all, he was flying an RAF Chinook so the RAF get the headlines, and they really do count in the public perception.

[The Armchair Soldier]

Moved into General Discussion since it's not strictly equipment related.