UK Politics - General News & Discussion

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dmereifield
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by dmereifield »

SKB wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 15:04 Jacob Rees Mogg would be my choice, if I had that choice.
No chance

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

dmereifield wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 15:05
SKB wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 15:04 Jacob Rees Mogg would be my choice, if I had that choice.
No chance
While I agree, I also will have to say ehhm:
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/ ... id=1227468

BTW: the cartoon with the ship already at the bottom of the sea, while the sharks were still homing in and Boris wielding his sword was even better than this one https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/matt ... ign=DM6975
especially when you look at the guy trying to steer according the instructions (the specs :D are a give-away, as the likeness otherwise is not that great) and then there is a white-haired witch, still shouting about keeping "wokery" at bay :roll:
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Caribbean wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 12:20 Conservative Home have Ben Wallace as favourite to succeed and Penny Mordaunt as second favourite, followed by Liz Truss and Tim Tugendhat.
dmereifield wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 13:04 Patel or even Braverman
dmereifield wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 14:52 people voted for Boris because he was patriotic and positive
Yes, that's right, but out of that list (above) only Tugendhat - relatively unknown to the wider public - would tick the boxes, WITHOUT
- being a nodding "yes" man like Wallace ... OK , there was a last moment try at 'course correction' ;)
- Mordaunt; not much to show in achievements, but good at wriggling her way back 'in'
- Patel & Brawerman... pretty pathetic (though the latter is even worse. Just that the offices she has held has not exposed that fact into 'full' view)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

dmereifield
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by dmereifield »

ArmChairCivvy wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 15:33
Caribbean wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 12:20 Conservative Home have Ben Wallace as favourite to succeed and Penny Mordaunt as second favourite, followed by Liz Truss and Tim Tugendhat.
dmereifield wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 13:04 Patel or even Braverman
dmereifield wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 14:52 people voted for Boris because he was patriotic and positive
Yes, that's right, but out of that list (above) only Tugendhat - relatively unknown to the wider public - would tick the boxes, WITHOUT
- being a nodding "yes" man like Wallace ... OK , there was a last moment try at 'course correction' ;)
- Mordaunt; not much to show in achievements, but good at wriggling her way back 'in'
- Patel & Brawerman... pretty pathetic (though the latter is even worse. Just that the offices she has held has not exposed that fact into 'full' view)
Tugenhadt has no chance with the membership, Damien Green has just come out in support of him, which tells you all you need to know.

Rumours are (for whatever they're worth) that Raab and Morduant aren't going to run, which is surprising.

I'm not advocating Patel or Brawerman, just commenting that they would find quote a bit of support amongst the right of party MPs and party members.

I think it's there for the taking for Truss if she plays her cards right

TheLoneRanger
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by TheLoneRanger »

I just hope the new coup-conspirators of Rushi and Javid do not get a look in as the new PM and also do not ever get any high office of state ever again - ever - then i wont be as angry...

Sad to see Bojo go now - I had hoped he had resolved the N.Ireland issue before all this happened - guess the "Establishment" and BBC and media wanted their revenge against the Brexit agitator ?! Feels like it as it seemed they sensed an opportunity and went for it.

Channel 4 is now trying to say his bill of "privatising the Ch4 is controversial and Bojo should not be allowed to do it and the next PM should own it routine right now". etc...

Lets see ....

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

dmereifield wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 15:38 Rumours are (for whatever they're worth) that Raab and Morduant aren't going to run, which is surprising.

I'm not advocating Patel or Brawerman
Interesting: Raab is head-over-shoulders with Patel. And Morduant is head over shoulders with Brawerman
... which leaves the only one to breathe, thorough the nostrils,
as Raab

I actually value him (despite some 'strangely' influenced media coverage)
.... whereas the other three I would be glad to see to go away. From politics altogether, not just from this race
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

TheLoneRanger wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 19:36 I just hope the new coup-conspirators of Rushi and Javid do not get a look in as the new PM and also do not ever get any high office of state ever again - ever - then i wont be as angry...
Apologies for using a quote from you, but this is what I say in the pubs: the reverse-takeover of the Empire has (only) just :lol: 'failed'

This is of course a joke of bad taste... but it is reflecting on the political reality (within the ruling Conservative Party)
- so totally facts based, and not reflecting any bias, what-so-ever
... please sign here :angel:
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

topman
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by topman »

I don't know if this has been posted. He seems to get it though which is good to see for a change.

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dmereifield
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by dmereifield »

ArmChairCivvy wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 20:40
dmereifield wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 15:38 Rumours are (for whatever they're worth) that Raab and Morduant aren't going to run, which is surprising.

I'm not advocating Patel or Brawerman
Interesting: Raab is head-over-shoulders with Patel. And Morduant is head over shoulders with Brawerman
... which leaves the only one to breathe, thorough the nostrils,
as Raab

I actually value him (despite some 'strangely' influenced media coverage)
.... whereas the other three I would be glad to see to go away. From politics altogether, not just from this race
I think Raab is very capable. He is also popular with the membership, or would be towards the business end of the hustings, which is why I was surprised that he won't (apparently) run for it

Scimitar54
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by Scimitar54 »

topman Wrote:-
I don't know if this has been posted. He seems to get it though which is good to see for a change
(Referring to B Wallace MP)
We could do with about 250 of his sort, on the government benches AND also on the Opposition benches! :mrgreen:
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SKB
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by SKB »

Boris resigned as Party Leader, not Prime Minister....

"Good afternoon everybody.

It is clearly now the will of the parliamentary Conservative Party that there should be a new leader of that party and therefore a new prime minister.

And I've agreed with Sir Graham Brady, the chairman of our backbench MPs, that the process of choosing that new leader should begin now and the timetable will be announced next week.

And I've today appointed a Cabinet to serve, as I will, until a new leader is in place.

So I want to say to the millions of people who voted for us in 2019, many of them voting Conservative for the first time, thank you for that incredible mandate, the biggest Conservative majority since 1987, the biggest share of the vote since 1979.

And the reason I have fought so hard in the last few days to continue to deliver that mandate in person was not just because I wanted to do so, but because I felt it was my job, my duty, my obligation to you to continue to do what we promised in 2019.

And of course, I'm immensely proud of the achievements of this government, from getting Brexit done to settling our relations with the Continent for over half a century, reclaiming the power for this country to make its own laws in Parliament, getting us all through the pandemic, delivering the fastest vaccine rollout in Europe, the fastest exit from lockdown, and in the last few months, leading the West in standing up to Putin's aggression in Ukraine.

And let me say now, to the people of Ukraine, that I know that we in the UK will continue to back your fight for freedom for as long as it takes.

And at the same time in this country, we've been pushing forward a vast programme of investment in infrastructure and skills and technology - the biggest for a century. Because if I have one insight into human beings, it is that genius and talent and enthusiasm and imagination are evenly distributed throughout the population.

But opportunity is not, and that's why we must keep levelling up, keep unleashing the potential of every part of the United Kingdom. And if we can do that, in this country, we will be the most prosperous in Europe.

And in the last few days, I tried to persuade my colleagues that it would be eccentric to change governments when we're delivering so much and when we have such a vast mandate and when we're actually only a handful of points behind in the polls, even in mid-term, after quite a few months of pretty relentless sledging and when the economic scene is so difficult domestically and internationally.

And I regret not to have been successful in those arguments and of course it's painful not to be able to see through so many ideas and projects myself.

But as we've seen at Westminster, the herd instinct is powerful and when the herd moves, it moves.

And my friends in politics, no-one is remotely indispensable and our brilliant and Darwinian system will produce another leader, equally committed to taking this country forward through tough times.

Not just helping families to get through it, but changing and improving the way we do things, cutting burdens on businesses and families and yes, cutting taxes, because that is the way to generate the growth and the income we need to pay for great public services.

And to that new leader, I say whoever he or she may be, I say I will give you as much support as I can. And to you, the British public.

I know that there will be many people who are relieved and perhaps quite a few who will also be disappointed. And I want you to know how sad I am to be giving up the best job in the world.

But them's the breaks.

I want to thank Carrie and our children, and all the members of my family who have had to put up with so much for so long.

I want to thank the peerless British civil service for all the help and support that you have given our police, our emergency services and, of course, our fantastic NHS, who at (a) critical moment, helped to extend my own period in office, as well as our armed services and our agencies that are so admired around the world.

And our indefatigable Conservative Party members and supporters whose selfless campaigning makes our democracy possible. I want to thank the wonderful staff here at Chequers - here at Number 10, and of course at Chequers. And our fantastic prop force detectives, the one group by the way, who never leak.

Above all, I want to thank you, the British public, for the immense privilege that you have given me and I want you to know that from now on until the new prime minister is in place, your interests will be served and the government of the country will be carried on.

Being prime minister is an education in itself. I have travelled to every part of the United Kingdom and, in addition to the beauty of our natural world, I have found so many people possessed of such boundless British originality and so willing to tackle old problems in new ways that I know that even if things can sometimes seem dark now, our future together is golden.

Thank you all very much. Thank you."


Boris Johnson, Thursday 7th July 2022.

R686
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by R686 »

SKB wrote: 08 Jul 2022, 14:36 Boris resigned as Party Leader, not Prime Minister....

Not really sure how you figure that out as once the new leader is chosen He or She will go to Her Majesty to........

BJ has already told Her Majesty that he plans to step down, difference here is that no one is ready to replace him as yet


You would think they all would have there ducks in a row before telling him to resign, must be a different set up to Australia as the cabinet is ready to rumble when they knife a sitting PM in AU

tomuk
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by tomuk »

What was I saying earlier in the thread....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... r-downfall

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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by tomuk »

R686 wrote: 09 Jul 2022, 02:26 You would think they all would have there ducks in a row before telling him to resign, must be a different set up to Australia as the cabinet is ready to rumble when they knife a sitting PM in AU
Don't the local membership of the party have any say?
Teresa May became leader without a membership vote as her remaining opponent withdrew. Labour famously ended up with Corbyn after opening the vote up to anybody wiling to pay £3 for a Labour Party affiliate membership.

R686
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by R686 »

tomuk wrote: 09 Jul 2022, 02:52
R686 wrote: 09 Jul 2022, 02:26 You would think they all would have there ducks in a row before telling him to resign, must be a different set up to Australia as the cabinet is ready to rumble when they knife a sitting PM in AU
Don't the local membership of the party have any say?
Teresa May became leader without a membership vote as her remaining opponent withdrew. Labour famously ended up with Corbyn after opening the vote up to anybody wiling to pay £3 for a Labour Party affiliate membership.
Do you mean branch members?

A leadership spill in Australian federal politics occurs when a leadership position is declared vacant and open for re-election within parliament. If it is challenged by a rival, it is called a leadership challenge but may also be referred to as a 'spill'. The outcome of a spill is decided by an election between parliament members to show a vote of confidence for the leader in office, otherwise a new leader is elected. Leadership spills have become increasingly frequent and has resulted in five Prime Ministers between 2010 and 2015. The most recent spill happened in August 2018 when Peter Dutton challenged prime minister Malcolm Turnbull for the leadership of the Liberal Party – who in turn had challenged former PM Tony Abbott for the role in September 2015. The Labor Party has had their share of leadership spills with Julia Gillard deposing Kevin Rudd as Prime Minister in Jun 2010 with Rudd reclaiming the Labor leadership in June 2013.
https://www.9news.com.au/leadership-spi ... 27spill%27.

Gtal
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by Gtal »

R686 wrote: 09 Jul 2022, 02:26
You would think they all would have there ducks in a row before telling him to resign, must be a different set up to Australia as the cabinet is ready to rumble when they knife a sitting PM in AU

Seriously, forget all this stuff about restructuring devolution or a proper written constitution or even PR, what the UK DESPERATELY needs is for government, parliament AND the conservative party to rework and institutionalise transparent procedures and conditions under which the excessive authority a conservative leader/UK prime minister is awarded and how it can be removed.

It's like even the conservatives themselves have been sitting there since Christmas, waiting for some sort of undefined momentum to take effect and push Johnson out the door, not knowing when that might be.

This is no way to run a country.

Phil Sayers
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by Phil Sayers »

Wallace rules himself out. A pity, I think he would have had the best shot of any candidate of getting the job if he had wanted it. I imagine he will be staying on as Defence Secretary whoever gets the gig so that is something anyway.

dmereifield
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by dmereifield »

Don't think he would have had a realistic shot of it. Great Secretary of defence, but don't think the party would have confidence in him winning a GE.

inch
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by inch »

Going to be a useless whoever takes over ,and achieve nothing ,lose the next election and more importantly for most people on here, not increase the defence budget to 3% that it really needs and take the MOD to account and people responsible for the spending choices and wastage ,

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

dmereifield wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 23:27 I think Raab is very capable. He is also popular with the membership, or would be towards the business end of the hustings
I agree; and wonder where the media drip-drip-drip briefings against him come from. The opposition, err with a capital "o"?
SKB wrote: 08 Jul 2022, 14:36 Being prime minister is an education in itself.
Indeed, but how many get to put that into use?
R686 wrote: 09 Jul 2022, 02:26 must be a different set up to Australia
Would think so, but won't matter for that long. "Up" here it is time to get used to coalition Gvmnts... without 500+ agreements on "everything" over the Fixed Term
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

R686
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by R686 »

Geez you would have to laugh at the China propaganda they spew out, if democracy itself is a good thing then why do they not push for it to happen in China


Messy politics in UK, US tarnishes name of democracy, disappoints local people

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202207/1270033.shtml
Democracy in itself is a good thing. It is one of the universal core values and principles for all human beings. But the democracy of the UK and the US is a bad thing. Their democratic practice is a mess, resulting in democracy being marred beyond recognition.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Did they answer the exam question: Democracy in HK was guaranteed for 50 yrs... why did they decide to flout that?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

SW1
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by SW1 »

Wonder how easy it would be to remove president xi if discontent with him was all around domestically, then again it easier when no discontent is allowed at all just stand and clap!

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

SW1 wrote: 10 Jul 2022, 15:36 then again it easier when no discontent is allowed
Gang of Four on the plane... where to?

Anyway, just give a bash at Chequers and BoJo will be gone. Not quietly, I presume, but we will all enjoy his columns (doubt the new PM will allow him write 'editorials'?
- then again, there are those tiny Channel Islands that will have a say in this 'matter'
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: UK Politics - General News & Discussion

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Gtal wrote: 09 Jul 2022, 08:46 stuff about restructuring devolution or a proper written constitution
Indeed, not a question- or two - for now.

... just wait :lol: for the next GE (and its aftermath 8-) )
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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