Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

For discussions on politics and current events.
Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7314
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
United Kingdom

Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by Lord Jim »

Just caught this at the end of the evening news on Radio 4. Now they may have misunderstood his announcement but an increase of 25% is almost £10Bn per year!!! Now that would certainly solve a few of the MoD's woes wouldn't it.

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by SKB »

Easy. Just don't pay EU £39bn and split it 50-50 between NHS and MoD.
3x QE's, 12x T45, 16x T23, 0x T31, 10x B2 River's... :thumbup:

User avatar
Pseudo
Senior Member
Posts: 1732
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 21:37
Tuvalu

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by Pseudo »

My guess is that the most likely means of him achieving increasing defence spending to 2.5% of GDP by 2023/24 is to commit to current defence spending and then go for no deal Brexit and watch GDP fall until £39bn is 2.5% of GDP.

Seriously, though. This isn't an election manifesto, these are party leadership election "promises". That means that they can pretty much say whatever they think will get them over the finish line. Most of those voting in the Conservative leadership election isn't going to vote Conservative at the next general election irrespective of whether the eventual leader lives up to his campaign promises, and the electorate of the Conservative party membership knows it.

User avatar
2HeadsBetter
Member
Posts: 205
Joined: 12 Dec 2015, 16:21
United Kingdom

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by 2HeadsBetter »

Hunt is promising spending increases all over the shop. Does he know which party he's trying to lead?

Scimitar54
Senior Member
Posts: 1701
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
United Kingdom

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by Scimitar54 »

r, which means that after 5 years the defence budget will be about 25% larger (about 2.5% of GDP then). I don't think he even indicated that it would be in real terms! Inflation would therefore have to be deducted! What is needed is far more than that! :mrgreen:

Scimitar54
Senior Member
Posts: 1701
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
United Kingdom

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by Scimitar54 »

Sorry all, the first part of my last post was cut off.
All Hunt is promising is a 4.5% increase (year on year for five years) which means that after 5 years the defence budget will be about 25% larger (about 2.5% of GDP then). I don't think he even indicated that it would be in real terms! Inflation would therefore have to be deducted! What he is offering is not much more than a gesture. What is needed is far more than that! :mrgreen:

User avatar
Cooper
Member
Posts: 347
Joined: 01 May 2015, 08:11
Korea North

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by Cooper »

He's full of shit.

..Theresa May 2.0

User avatar
clivestonehouse1
Member
Posts: 71
Joined: 25 Jun 2019, 19:34
United Kingdom

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by clivestonehouse1 »

They'll just cut my MoD pay by 25% to cover it

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

S M H
Member
Posts: 433
Joined: 03 May 2015, 12:59
United Kingdom

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by S M H »

clivestonehouse1 wrote:They'll just cut my MoD pay by 25% to cover it
I have a better idea cull 25% of our self serving M.P.s , slash the house of lords. Pass a law capping the numbers. That with there staff and pensions should free up some funds. On the positive side the public would approve. There again they wont do what they have done to the unprotected government departments. Then it will never happen as our political turkeys will not vote for Christmas Day.

Scimitar54
Senior Member
Posts: 1701
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
United Kingdom

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by Scimitar54 »

Turkeys never do, but demand for Roast Turkey at Christmas ensures that their numbers are always appropriately reduced by those who are responsible for them.

User avatar
clivestonehouse1
Member
Posts: 71
Joined: 25 Jun 2019, 19:34
United Kingdom

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by clivestonehouse1 »

S M H wrote:
clivestonehouse1 wrote:They'll just cut my MoD pay by 25% to cover it
I have a better idea cull 25% of our self serving M.P.s , slash the house of lords. Pass a law capping the numbers. That with there staff and pensions should free up some funds. On the positive side the public would approve. There again they wont do what they have done to the unprotected government departments. Then it will never happen as our political turkeys will not vote for Christmas Day.
Cutting MoD pay is no joke.
I'm a non-industrial Civil Servant and at my level the pay would be pretty meagre if not for shift allowance, weekend pay and a flexible rostering allowance.
This basically boosts my wages by 40% which sounds a lot but in real world terms basically makes up for me working nights and weekends while all other Civil Servants are cosy at home with their families.
My trade is facing a 15% budget saving push, which is just another middle finger in an almost continuous run of austerity budgets, recruiting freezes, overtime bans and privatisation threats.
My trade used to be covered by mostly older ex-military guys that were happy to plod on towards retirement and not make a fuss, but now it's all younger staff coming in that have no real interest in the job itself and only stay a pair of years which suits the higher up's as then the pension burden is far lower compared to an ex squaddie that did 22 years then comes to us for a solid job to take them to retirement age.
I'm not knocking the younger ones at all but our job requires a steady head and life experiences that can imbue them with the common sense that a kid straight out of college is unlikely to be able to offer.

For comparison- look at the current state of the Prison Service and the mess that is in due to pay consolidation and privatisation.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by SKB »

Image

Image

RunningStrong
Senior Member
Posts: 1304
Joined: 06 May 2015, 20:52

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by RunningStrong »

clivestonehouse1 wrote:MoD pay is no joke.
I'm a non-industrial Civil Servant and at my level the pay would be pretty meagre if not for shift allowance, weekend pay and a flexible rostering allowance.
This basically boosts my wages by 40% which sounds a lot but in real world terms basically makes up for me working nights and weekends while all other Civil Servants are cosy at home with their families.
lk
You're ignoring the huge cost to employment that comes from your 26-34% employer pension contributions. That's unheard of elsewhere.

User avatar
clivestonehouse1
Member
Posts: 71
Joined: 25 Jun 2019, 19:34
United Kingdom

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by clivestonehouse1 »

RunningStrong wrote:
clivestonehouse1 wrote:MoD pay is no joke.
I'm a non-industrial Civil Servant and at my level the pay would be pretty meagre if not for shift allowance, weekend pay and a flexible rostering allowance.
This basically boosts my wages by 40% which sounds a lot but in real world terms basically makes up for me working nights and weekends while all other Civil Servants are cosy at home with their families.
lk
You're ignoring the huge cost to employment that comes from your 26-34% employer pension contributions. That's unheard of elsewhere.
Not ignored, just an unpleasant topic in the MoD nowadays.
My pension scheme has been changed so many times now that it's no longer the golden handshake it was when I joined the MoD 16 years ago.
I still have 18 years (currently unless they move the goalposts again) until national pension age and I'm sure the pension will shrink again.
I could opt to go at 60 but the pension would be meagre.
Luckily I have a military pension, disablement pension and a personal pension plan I pay as a top up so shouldn't be a pauper but I don't consider a decent pension for 35+ years service being too much to ask for tbh.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

inch
Senior Member
Posts: 1311
Joined: 27 May 2015, 21:35

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by inch »

More likely a 25% decrease straight away in defence budget as think in short order Corbyn will get voted in after boris/hunt brief few days in office and say goodbye to any defence

User avatar
clivestonehouse1
Member
Posts: 71
Joined: 25 Jun 2019, 19:34
United Kingdom

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by clivestonehouse1 »

inch wrote:More likely a 25% decrease straight away in defence budget as think in short order Corbyn will get voted in after boris/hunt brief few days in office and say goodbye to any defence
God help us all.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

RunningStrong
Senior Member
Posts: 1304
Joined: 06 May 2015, 20:52

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by RunningStrong »

clivestonehouse1 wrote:
RunningStrong wrote:
clivestonehouse1 wrote:MoD pay is no joke.
I'm a non-industrial Civil Servant and at my level the pay would be pretty meagre if not for shift allowance, weekend pay and a flexible rostering allowance.
This basically boosts my wages by 40% which sounds a lot but in real world terms basically makes up for me working nights and weekends while all other Civil Servants are cosy at home with their families.
lk
You're ignoring the huge cost to employment that comes from your 26-34% employer pension contributions. That's unheard of elsewhere.
Not ignored, just an unpleasant topic in the MoD nowadays.
My pension scheme has been changed so many times now that it's no longer the golden handshake it was when I joined the MoD 16 years ago.
I still have 18 years (currently unless they move the goalposts again) until national pension age and I'm sure the pension will shrink again.
I could opt to go at 60 but the pension would be meagre.
Luckily I have a military pension, disablement pension and a personal pension plan I pay as a top up so shouldn't be a pauper but I don't consider a decent pension for 35+ years service being too much to ask for tbh.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a MoD civilian you are still part of the public sector pension and the 26%+ employer contributions.

So as well as your significant armed forces pension, that you didn't contribute towards, you're still in a far better position than 90% of earners and future pensioners.

User avatar
clivestonehouse1
Member
Posts: 71
Joined: 25 Jun 2019, 19:34
United Kingdom

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by clivestonehouse1 »

RunningStrong wrote:
clivestonehouse1 wrote:
RunningStrong wrote:
clivestonehouse1 wrote:MoD pay is no joke.
I'm a non-industrial Civil Servant and at my level the pay would be pretty meagre if not for shift allowance, weekend pay and a flexible rostering allowance.
This basically boosts my wages by 40% which sounds a lot but in real world terms basically makes up for me working nights and weekends while all other Civil Servants are cosy at home with their families.
lk
You're ignoring the huge cost to employment that comes from your 26-34% employer pension contributions. That's unheard of elsewhere.
Not ignored, just an unpleasant topic in the MoD nowadays.
My pension scheme has been changed so many times now that it's no longer the golden handshake it was when I joined the MoD 16 years ago.
I still have 18 years (currently unless they move the goalposts again) until national pension age and I'm sure the pension will shrink again.
I could opt to go at 60 but the pension would be meagre.
Luckily I have a military pension, disablement pension and a personal pension plan I pay as a top up so shouldn't be a pauper but I don't consider a decent pension for 35+ years service being too much to ask for tbh.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a MoD civilian you are still part of the public sector pension and the 26%+ employer contributions.

So as well as your significant armed forces pension, that you didn't contribute towards, you're still in a far better position than 90% of earners and future pensioners.
The only reason I get a half decent military pension etc is because I was nearly killed in service (9 months in hospital with a broken back).
I can detect a smidgen of jealousy creeping into your posts however bear in mind that I will be in no way living a caviar and champagne lifestyle in retirement.
I have worked hard and will continue to do so for everything I get /will get in future and can't be guilt tripped into feeling bad about something I have earned by the sweat of my brow.
The only thing that will keep me in fuzzy tartan slippers and a house I can afford to heat will be the extra pension I pay from my net earnings every month.
Is it immoral to get a pension pot that will keep me alive after 50 years of working for it?
I'll probably croak at 70 anyway Image so my pension 'burden' on the state will be minor and my military ones will die with me.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 7314
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
United Kingdom

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by Lord Jim »

Please leave off any criticism of the Civil Service Pension Scheme. Yes the Senior Civil Service are over paid and have ridiculous pensions but you r average Civil Servant works for less than the average wage and usually is doing the job that used to be done by someone at least one pay grade higher. Yes they can get an annual bonus but that is less then £1k and is not pensionable, Luckily I got out in 2006 and I still have the old style pension but after ten years of hard slog and saving the MoD over three quarters of a million quid by spotting an accounting error, I will get the sum of £4k a year from my pension. So please do not knock the Civil Service Pension Scheme even though it is now a nightmare, but instead have a go at employers in the private sector who seem to enjoy using their companies pension Schemes as their private Piggy Bank. A law should be made to make it compulsory for the Pension Funds of all companies to be fully funded and in the case of a company going bust, the pension fund gats first call on any assets remaining. That will upset those rich arseholes running investment funds but they have brought many a decent UK company to their knees, stripping away any value the company once had and throwing the remaining husk in the bin , relying on the Government to try to help those who have lost their pensions.

On the actual thread topic, an extra eight of nine billion a year on defence should allow the next ten year procurement plan to be increased by at least £4Bn a year which should cover everything already on the books and allow number of items still on the must have list to actually be purchased. More importantly on top of this the extra money should allow all three services to increase their manning levels. Maybe a small ray of hope, even is it is ever so small one can barely see it and may have imagined it.

User avatar
clivestonehouse1
Member
Posts: 71
Joined: 25 Jun 2019, 19:34
United Kingdom

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by clivestonehouse1 »

Lord Jim wrote:Please leave off any criticism of the Civil Service Pension Scheme. Yes the Senior Civil Service are over paid and have ridiculous pensions but you r average Civil Servant works for less than the average wage and usually is doing the job that used to be done by someone at least one pay grade higher. Yes they can get an annual bonus but that is less then £1k and is not pensionable, Luckily I got out in 2006 and I still have the old style pension but after ten years of hard slog and saving the MoD over three quarters of a million quid by spotting an accounting error, I will get the sum of £4k a year from my pension. So please do not knock the Civil Service Pension Scheme even though it is now a nightmare, but instead have a go at employers in the private sector who seem to enjoy using their companies pension Schemes as their private Piggy Bank. A law should be made to make it compulsory for the Pension Funds of all companies to be fully funded and in the case of a company going bust, the pension fund gats first call on any assets remaining. That will upset those rich arseholes running investment funds but they have brought many a decent UK company to their knees, stripping away any value the company once had and throwing the remaining husk in the bin , relying on the Government to try to help those who have lost their pensions.

On the actual thread topic, an extra eight of nine billion a year on defence should allow the next ten year procurement plan to be increased by at least £4Bn a year which should cover everything already on the books and allow number of items still on the must have list to actually be purchased. More importantly on top of this the extra money should allow all three services to increase their manning levels. Maybe a small ray of hope, even is it is ever so small one can barely see it and may have imagined it.
Hear hear Image

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

topman
Member
Posts: 771
Joined: 07 May 2015, 20:56
Tokelau

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by topman »

RunningStrong wrote:
clivestonehouse1 wrote:
RunningStrong wrote:
clivestonehouse1 wrote:MoD pay is no joke.
I'm a non-industrial Civil Servant and at my level the pay would be pretty meagre if not for shift allowance, weekend pay and a flexible rostering allowance.
This basically boosts my wages by 40% which sounds a lot but in real world terms basically makes up for me working nights and weekends while all other Civil Servants are cosy at home with their families.
lk
You're ignoring the huge cost to employment that comes from your 26-34% employer pension contributions. That's unheard of elsewhere.
Not ignored, just an unpleasant topic in the MoD nowadays.
My pension scheme has been changed so many times now that it's no longer the golden handshake it was when I joined the MoD 16 years ago.
I still have 18 years (currently unless they move the goalposts again) until national pension age and I'm sure the pension will shrink again.
I could opt to go at 60 but the pension would be meagre.
Luckily I have a military pension, disablement pension and a personal pension plan I pay as a top up so shouldn't be a pauper but I don't consider a decent pension for 35+ years service being too much to ask for tbh.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a MoD civilian you are still part of the public sector pension and the 26%+ employer contributions.

So as well as your significant armed forces pension, that you didn't contribute towards, you're still in a far better position than 90% of earners and future pensioners.
plenty of jobs going in the MoD, in and out of uniform, if you want some of those pension contributions.

RunningStrong
Senior Member
Posts: 1304
Joined: 06 May 2015, 20:52

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by RunningStrong »

topman wrote: plenty of jobs going in the MoD, in and out of uniform, if you want some of those pension contributions.
I'm happy sitting on the other side of industry whilst MOD civil and ex-forces continue to bemoan how bad they've got a pension in complete ignorance of everyone else.

I guess it's the result of working in an echo chamber.

topman
Member
Posts: 771
Joined: 07 May 2015, 20:56
Tokelau

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by topman »

RunningStrong wrote:
topman wrote: plenty of jobs going in the MoD, in and out of uniform, if you want some of those pension contributions.
I'm happy sitting on the other side of industry whilst MOD civil and ex-forces continue to bemoan how bad they've got a pension in complete ignorance of everyone else.

I guess it's the result of working in an echo chamber.
Obviously not that good then or you'd rushing out the door...

RunningStrong
Senior Member
Posts: 1304
Joined: 06 May 2015, 20:52

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by RunningStrong »

topman wrote: Obviously not that good then or you'd rushing out the door...
Because obviously there's no other reason to work except for a pension...

topman
Member
Posts: 771
Joined: 07 May 2015, 20:56
Tokelau

Re: Hunt promises "25% increase in Defence Budget"!!

Post by topman »

RunningStrong wrote:
topman wrote: Obviously not that good then or you'd rushing out the door...
Because obviously there's no other reason to work except for a pension...
Its a part of the deal which if it was that good people would be queuing up round the block but it isn't so they aren't.

Post Reply